HMOs and AFDD

S

shaft123

New Member
Hi, looking for some advice please...

I own a 2 storey HMO property which had a new consumer unit installed 5 years ago and an EICR was done at the time with no issues.

Had an electrician around last week to re-do the EICR and he's given a C2 for not have AFDDs on 5 socket circuits plus 2 cooker circuits which have socket outlets on the isolation unit. (with a quote of £1300 to fix this)

i've been reading up on the requirement to have the AFDD which I believe comes from BS 7671:2018+A2:2022. but it states that it is not to be applied retrospectively. so i think the AFDDs are not required!!

can someone please confirm?

TIA
 
shaft123 said:
Hi, looking for some advice please...
. . . i've been reading up on the requirement to have the AFDD which I believe comes from BS 7671:2018+A2:2022. but it states that it is not to be applied retrospectively. so i think the AFDDs are not required!! . . .
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When you have an EICR carried out, it should be done to today's version of BS7671. The idea is that you are comparing the safety of the installation with everything we know about making installations safe today. All the "retrospective" bit means, is that you don't have to rush out and upgrade every time BS7671 is altered, although in certain types of installation you may need to, as other laws may apply.
 
adgjl said:
When you have an EICR carried out, it should be done to today's version of BS7671. The idea is that you are comparing the safety of the installation with everything we know about making installations safe today. All the "retrospective" bit means, is that you don't have to rush out and upgrade every time BS7671 is altered, although in certain types of installation you may need to, as other laws may apply.
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Thanks. I understand and I agree with you that the installation needs to be safe. The best practice guide 4 issue 7 has the absence of AFDDs in HMOs as C3. I will get it done in the near future but for now I need an EICR with no C1s or C2s which i think is what the council needs for a HMO license.

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shaft123 said:
. . . The best practice guide 4 issue 7 has the absence of AFDDs in HMOs as C3. . .
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Yes, but that is guidance. The electrician you have chosen for the EICR probably has a good reason why they have coded it as a C2. You would need to ask them - if they make a mistake, they could have to justify their reasons in a court of law. It could be that a different electrician would take a more lenient approach and award a C3 instead. I must stress that I am not advocating shopping round for an electrician that will give the results you need / want!
 
Just picking up on one thing - £1,300 to install (and presumably supply) 7 AFDDs ? Which area are you located ? What make / brand are the existing MCBs / RCBOs ? Just curious.
 
shaft123 said:
Thanks. I will check with the local council but i think they want an EICR with no C1s or C2s. C3s are ok.
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You need to specifically ask if the Local Authority want Arc Fault Detection Devices to be retrofitted, not just if C3s are acceptable with the aim of getting the EICR rewritten.
 
The Happy Builder said:
You need to specifically ask if the Local Authority want Arc Fault Detection Devices to be retrofitted, not just if C3s are acceptable with the aim of getting the EICR rewritten.
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The council license scheme conditions clearly states any 'Any code 1 or 2 defects in a report must be rectified and any FI (further investigation) codes followed'. There is no mention of AFDDs.
 
shaft123 said:
The council license scheme conditions clearly states any 'Any code 1 or 2 defects in a report must be rectified and any FI (further investigation) codes followed'. There is no mention of AFDDs.
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Which is why I said you need to ask the LA licensing officer the question.

LA policies are not set by electricians and landlords, neither are the LA licensing rules.

They definitely aren't set by people on Internet discussion forums, only your LA can answer your question.
 
arrow said:
Wrong opinion though.
Probably a board changer, can't get away with that so going the afdd route to fleece the customer.
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I don't know how I would Code it without seeing the installation and whether it's condition may warrant it. So opinion must be down to the judgement of the person on site.
 
arrow said:
Wrong opinion though.
Probably a board changer, can't get away with that so going the afdd route to fleece the customer.
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I agree. It's C3. If it was dangerous it would be coded elsewhere ie damaged socket, poor insulation etc. The requirement only came out two years ago. New installations, obviously. Pre 2022, never.

Lack of AFDD is neither potentially dangerous nor dangerous. I can't think of any situation where the wiring is satisfactory but lack of AFDD makes it dangerous. Or potentially so. Or have I overlooked a situation where this is possible?

If wiring systems on all high risk properties were given a C2 for lack of AFDD, then tens of thousands of buildings would have unsatisfactory EICRs. I haven't heard of any clamour for AFDDs.

Going back to @shaft123. If your LA people want a satisfactory EICR and do not warn you of any caveats, great. All you need to do is get the electrician to change their mind. Good luck with that.
 
It’s quite simple, ask the LA licensing officer.

Not wanting to hear the answer, in case it’s not the answer you want to hear, is not a justification for not asking the question in the first place.
 
Applying a C2 code for lack of AFFD on a Ring Final Circuit would be spurious.
If anything, it should be a C2 for using an AFFD on a Ring Final Circuit, as having 2 legs to the circuit prevents them from operating correctly.
 
spinlondon said:
Applying a C2 code for lack of AFFD on a Ring Final Circuit would be spurious.
If anything, it should be a C2 for using an AFFD on a Ring Final Circuit, as having 2 legs to the circuit prevents them from operating correctly.
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@spinlondon. That's genius! Well, a little bit clever. I never thought of that before.

Therefore, a functioning AFDD can be installed to MIs, in a safe electrical system but it is known that it might not work.

I can't think of any other safety devices that can match that!
 
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