# Homeopathy...real or rubbish

Discussion in 'Just Talk' started by retiredsparks, Apr 18, 2018.

which side ?
Rs

2. ### Dr BodgitSuper Member

The inside.

retiredsparks and fillyboy like this.

4. ### dwlondonActive Member

Tea.

Not necessary or homeopathy?

5. ### Jord86Screwfix Select

Do you enjoy the taste of tea? If so, do you feel slightly refreshed/rejuvenated/relieved/refreshed after a cup? (I know, amazing alliteration)

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6. ### btiw2Screwfix Select

Love the alliteration, but that’s not homeopathic tea.

Recipe for a 30C homeopathic tea:
Take a lovely cup o’ tea.
Ah, but we want a 30C (homeopathic) dilution.
Dilute to homeopathic proportions (in 30C, C means 100, 30 means 30 times) so that’s with 100^30=10^60 cups of water.
Say a cup is 180 ml. That’s 10 moles of water = (roughly) 6x10^24 molecules = 1.8 x 10^25 atoms.
We needed 10^60 cups so that’s roughly 10^60 cups x 1.8 x 10^25 atoms per cup= 1.8 x 10^84 atoms (of H and O to make H2O).
This is a problem as there’s roughly 10^80 atoms in the observable universe.

Okay Jord, new plan:
Make a cup of tea.
Convert 18,000 universes into water.
Tip cup of tea into these universes of water.
Stir well (you’ll need a big spoon).
Bang the mixture against a leather horse saddle (I have no idea what this is about).
Drink a cup of it.

Ahhhh... now I’m refreshed/rejuvenated/relieved/refreshed and not a little ridiculous?

Yeah. The numbers in homeopathic medicine make no sense.

But... I hope my previous posts illustrate that I’m not against homeopathic medicine per se. In fact, I think it genuinely helps many people.

I just wish they didn’t cling to (pre atomic theory) theories of why it works.

Their argument should be: It works. End of. Don’t like it? Don’t take it.

Jord86 likes this.
7. ### Jord86Screwfix Select

I forgot 'refined.' You know, I started grinning evilly at your fourth sentence, knowing the direction it was heading. Your number crunching is sublime, slightly sardonic(....!) and excellently explained (I'm on a roll now), though you never did elaborate on the benefits of banging a leather saddle....? But if it works........meh.

btiw2 likes this.
8. ### btiw2Screwfix Select

Thank you, but “sublime” is over the top; “simple” or “self-evident” would have kept up your alliterative flow whilst maintaining accuracy - there were no calculations in there beyond O-level chemistry or maths.

I don’t know why leather saddles are used in homeopathy. My chemistry teacher didn’t mention the chemical properties banging stuff against leather saddles. Perhaps I should have taken chemistry to A level.

9. ### Jord86Screwfix Select

It's sublime enough at this time of the evening, when I'm relying on spellcheck, struggling to see the screen due to inebriation and taking a quarter of an hour to type a single sentence. So like most other nights then. Referring back to the thread, I still don't understand why folk are so negative over homeopathy, placebos, St John's Wort, copper bracelets, voodoo mumbo jumbo, etc. I'm the first to state logical explanations have their place, but sometimes,if they don't, who gives a toss if the end result outlasts the prediction?

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10. ### btiw2Screwfix Select

Arrr, anyone posting at this time of night is half cut. Me included. I get that. I probably should make allowances before picking up on vocabulary. Soz. Especially as I can’t focus on my phone’s screen, let alone make use of the spell checker.

I think the science part of homeopathy is a red herring. It let’s sciencey types get all condescending to non-sciencey types (yes, I’m looking at you Mr Dawkins) whilst missing the purpose of medicine - to make people feel better.

I think CAM (when done right) is like a form of medical counselling. Counselling for mental health doesn’t pretend that talking to people uses “the physics of speech sound waves” to cure people. Similarly CAM isn’t physics, it’s about spending time with people, talking about their health and lifestyle, making them feel better and setting up rituals and processes which can help in their physical healing.

By its very nature, I think this forum will be made up of pragmatic people not academic theoreticians. If something works - good enough. If something might work - screw it! Let’s try it anyway.

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11. ### MuzunguScrewfix Select

I think you have just about nailed it. Spending time with someone who is interested in and cares about your condition always makes you feel a bit better and if they give you something which you believe in the placebo effect kicks in, or might. But you have to believe it will work for that to happen and it is limited in effect.

If you believe that taking a few drops of what is nothing more than distilled water will have a positive effect then, for an illness that may have a psychosomatic component, you may get a positive effect.

On any real scientific level homeopathy is clearly nonsense but the practitioners have to come up with some frankly bizarre reasoning for how it "works" on a scientific level, basically magical thinking.

I used to work with someone who had Rheumatoid Arthritis. Along with conventional treatment she went down the route of CAM and came in one day extolling the virtues of realigning her chakras and how it had made her feel so much better; she was all over facebook with this nonsense. I do have some compassion by the way and wouldn't have dreamed of trying to disabuse her of her notions. As her disease progressed no more mention was made of any of these alternative remedies that had supposedly been so effective for her. They probably were on a temporary psychological level, but on a physical level, no.

So fine, go alternative if you want, it may make you feel better, but until anyone is able to show using a standard double blind medical trial that any of these treatments have any physical effect I am staying with my opinion that all these treatments have zero effect other than, maybe, on a psychosomatic level.

12. ### koolpcSuper Member

Anyone tried cbd oil? I bought some to try for my extremely bad lower back. As i write this i have ice on my lower back!

13. ### joinerjohn1Screwfix Select

I like my pub landlords recipe for homeopathetic beer. Take one firkin ( empty) Clean out thoroughly with hot water until perfectly clean. Fill with clean cold water from the tap. Add 1 mcg of watered down lager. Stir and put immediately on pump number 2. Serve to people who believe in homeopathy at a vastly inflated price. ( don’t forget to hire extra bouncers on Friday nights because of all the trouble at chucking out time )

retiredsparks likes this.
14. ### facilitiesGuest

Not heard of Cam but it sounds like listening to good advice & more importantly taking it, also hang out with positive people, probably does have its limitations, like if you lost a limb you ain’t gonna grow a new one, but I am sure wise counselling (if that’s what it is) can only be good for you, I know from personal experiences depression/mental illness can be very debilitating ( the last 10 years of my working life was spent in a mental hospital, albeit in facilities department)

15. ### HeatScrewfix Select

A friend of mine started to get dealbilitating symptoms - painful joints, hands swollen and general lethargy so much that he had to keep sitting down and was thinking he would have to give up work.
Doctors and eventually private health full tests revealed nothing and it was said to be ME.
Finally he went to a Homeopathic man who instantly said it was arthritis developing and put him on a strict diet and some supplements which dramatically improved him in only a few weeks.
It is obvious many conditions we have are created by what we eat and drink, basically wrong eating habits, plus lack of some natural supplements, lack of proper physical exercise and physical care and mental attitude to life.
Mind, body and soul, as the saying goes.

16. ### somean49New Member

Did you hear about the homeopath who committed suicide with an underdose?

17. ### retiredsparksSuper Member

From a realistic and pragmatic point of view.
Lack of just one vitamin can kill you in 6 months.
So disruption of the ability of the body to utilise various vits and mins will cause dis-ease (hyphenation for emphasis)
From personal experience;
Last summer was juicing fruits and veggies.
One day pain down right side of face like a knife thru temple face and jaw...vertically.
24 hours a day for 1 week....nothing touched it....and right eye would water without reason.
Just about to go to drs......
Wife noted i had been juicing celery for Blood Pressure reasons......(and I hate celery and never eat it normally)
Stopped celery intake...day later ...pain gone...never returned.
What do you all reckon...
Rs

18. ### Dr BodgitSuper Member

How many of those big placebo tablets did you take?

19. ### retiredsparksSuper Member

none.....but if you look up celery ..it's an unusual veg....and had been noted in medice for allergenic properties.
RS

20. ### facilitiesGuest

Must admit my dragon puts celery in stews & stuff ad I do like the flavour it imparts