Hot Stop Tap & Cold Victorian Stop Tap Issue

Discussion in 'Plumbers' Talk' started by verynewtothis, Sep 12, 2019.

  1. verynewtothis

    verynewtothis Member

    Hello All,

    My Victorian property was built in 1905, two previous owners. The last owner ran a new blue water pipe from the main stop cock at the very front of the driveway into the kitchen at the back of the house. I'm now finding I have an issue with the redesigning the kitchen (knocking walls through) as the previous owner separated this main water feed into two and decided it was a good idea to have two stop cocks inside the kitchen. These are labeled up as a cold stop and a hot stop, both approx a meter or so away from each other on opposite sides of the external kitchen door. The left hand side pipes in particular will be an issue as a wall is going to be knocked through and a steel placed where some of those pipes are. The pipework is a bit of a mess to be honest and i'm not sure how to approach it.

    The previous owner said he separated the water feeds as a 'belt and braces' approach as he didn't want the water pressure to drop (Main combi boiler), however the pipework needs to be reconfigured and I have not got the slightest clue how to sort it out. The kitchen had two sinks, one in an awkward corner on the right hand side of the kitchen (last photo) which i have now taken (out but pipes still need to be removed), the other one is going to remain, an old Belfast sink, which is another problem as the bottom of that leaks - i'll save that for another day though!

    Any advice would be welcomed and I can get better photos if needed! Hope you can understand this, it's a bit of a mess tbh!

  2. Joe the Plumber

    Joe the Plumber Well-Known Member

    I'd try to remove one of the pipes and stop taps where it branches off and run everything from the other. Splitting the pipe won't make any difference to the water pressure (or flow) as they all come into the building from the same single pipe.

    While you're about it, lose that yellowing plastic push fit coupling from the cold mains pipe in your last photo (if that's the one you keep). A nice brass compression coupling will do just fine instead.

    You mustn't leave the branch just capped off or you'll have stagnant water in it, which is very bad news on mains pipework.

    Your house is Edwardian (Edward VII) incidentally (Queen Victoria died in 1901).
    verynewtothis likes this.
  3. The Teach

    The Teach Well-Known Member

    sometimes ripping it all out and starting again is the best approach,to avoid any confusion a single water service into the property should be considered ;)

    think of it as an opportunity to improve not a problem.

  4. verynewtothis

    verynewtothis Member

    Morning all, thanks for the replies. I just wanted to check those taps inside the kitchen. If I turn the hot stop off, the whole hot water taps downstairs and upstairs all shut off. If I do the cold then the cold all shut off. Does that make sense?
  5. Joe the Plumber

    Joe the Plumber Well-Known Member

    The 'hot' tap will be on the mains cold feed through your combi-boiler to all the hot taps. The 'cold' tap will be on the mains cold feed around the house to the cold taps, but not via the boiler.

    To get rid of one of them, you'd need to run a pipe from after whichever valve you keep to just after (ie on the house side of) the valve you get rid of. But as I said earlier, you need to also disconnect the redundant one at its branch from the main cold pipe in order to avoid a 'dead' pipe on the mains which will be potentially dangerous to health.
    verynewtothis likes this.
  6. verynewtothis

    verynewtothis Member

    Sorry for bringing this one back up, due to some family issues I had to take a back seat on it. However, I now need to try to rectify this pipework asap.

    So I understand that the old owner of the house separated the mdpe blue pipe coming into the house into two stop taps, one going into the boiler to feed the hot pipes/central heating the other stop tap to a separate stop tap on the other side of the kitchen that only feeds the cold taps water supply. I still don't understand why someone would do this?

    I am happy with the pipe work to the boiler, this is the cold (hot) stop tap I want to keep on the correct side of the kitchen. However the problem is how to work out how to move this other cold stop tap feed into that same area as the boiler pipework so it will be all kept all in one place. Do I just join the mdpe (cold mains) blue pipe that has been divided onto one feed going into the boiler? If so surely then the cold water will just go straight into the boiler to feed hot pipes. The cold pipework around the house won't work then i presume?

    Very confused of this, really hope someone can help in simply terms. Doing my head in!

    (I know one of the posts said sometimes best to start all over again, but in this case i honestly can't)
  7. Joe the Plumber

    Joe the Plumber Well-Known Member

    Very simply, you have just the same set-up as everyone else in the land with a combi boiler, except yours has two stop taps on it. Most people have a cold pipe from outside to a single stop tap, and this then runs all round the cold fittings (taps, loos, showers, etc) in the house, but with a branch off to the cold inlet on their boiler which then feeds the hot fittings (taps and showers).

    You need to get rid of the current cold feed as close to the incoming blue pipe as possible and then tee off the remaining cold feed to the boiler back to wherever the current cold pipe runs around the house.

    If you like, all you're doing is moving the split from where it is now to just under (or relatively close to) the boiler.
    verynewtothis likes this.
  8. verynewtothis

    verynewtothis Member

    Morning Joe, thanks for the reply, that makes things alot clearer thank you.

    So just finally, will I still have two stop taps but now close to the boiler?
  9. Joe the Plumber

    Joe the Plumber Well-Known Member

    You're welcome. You can have two stop taps if you want, but most people only have one. I suppose having two means you can isolate just the hot or the cold supplies while leaving the other one working, but it's fairly unlikely that's ever going to be necessary.
    verynewtothis likes this.
  10. Jitender

    Jitender Well-Known Member

    Looks like two separate supplies were put in so it didn't have to have pipes running across the door.

    It does look like 32m MDPE (blue)?
  11. verynewtothis

    verynewtothis Member

    Joe, thanks for all the help on this, I really do appreciate it.

    When I spoke to the previous owner he stated he did this because it was "a belt and braces" approach for any loss of pressure" or something like that. The previous owner is a carpenter, not a plumber. Do you think I have anything to worry about!

    Not sure what diameter it is, anyway to check easily without pulling the thing out?
    Joe the Plumber likes this.
  12. Joe the Plumber

    Joe the Plumber Well-Known Member

    Pressure is force/area. If you split a single pipe into two of the same size as the single one, the area doubles so the pressure halves. The carpenter clearly had a different understanding of this from me.
    verynewtothis likes this.
  13. dcox

    dcox Active Member

    Pressure would stay the same in both but flow would be reduced. I think. **waits to be corrected**

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