House Rewire

Discussion in 'Electricians' Talk' started by Baron88, Nov 4, 2019.

  1. Baron88

    Baron88 New Member

    Helo All!

    Right, I'm having my house rewired. And to save some cash I'm wanting to do most of the chasing out, as wll as some of the more simpler 1st fix of the upstairs and downstairs rings and lighting myself (excluding bathroom and kitchen). Before I go out and buy the materials has anyone got any top tips or reccommendations, like which wires are best for what (i.e. which 2.5mm2 brand/type is best for rings etc.).

    Many thanks in advance!
  2. jonathanc

    jonathanc Guest

    Get your electrician appointed now and agree with him what materials and what you do. The design of circuits will be down to the electrician so they will need to be happy with cables and cable runs etc
  3. terrymac

    terrymac Screwfix Select

    You should speak to your electrician before doing anything. Your spark will almost certainly be able to buy cable / accessories etc cheaper than you . Have you actually agreed with an electrician that you are going to do some work yourself ? There are plenty who will not entertain the idea.
  4. I always prefer to cut out my own boxes, it can take the same time to put them right than starting from scratch, when someone else has not cut them out, deep enough, back not flat and out of level. Especially when there is a few together.
  5. Baron88

    Baron88 New Member

    The sparky is going to quote both ways so that i can see my options. But he did give me a rough £65 per double socker and £55 per downlight. Now this could be me being naive but that that seems like a fair bit, considering if i paid £65 to put one socket in one room and wanted a second 2m down the same wall it would cost an additional £65, now if I assume approx. £10 for parts (socket, box, 3m of wire, some clips and trunking, have i missed anything?) that means £55 for labour and at a labour rate of £45 per hour that would mean it'll take him over an hour to add that 2nd socket. Is that just me but does that seem a bit on the high side?

    Side Note: I should say that he wouldnt need to 'make good' any of the walls, floors etc, as this is part of a complete house renovation
  6. Baron88

    Baron88 New Member

    I understand what you are saying, but fortunately most will be in stud walls which should make things easier, but also I have a laser level which should help a fair bit. But mainly I'm in no real rush so i can take my time and get it done right first time
  7. Comlec

    Comlec Screwfix Select

    Are you proposing to use drywall boxes or metal back boxes on noggins?

    I like many would not be happy to take on such work. The problem the spark has is the requirement to inspect your work at every turn especially if you are cutting joist, drilling walls and pulling in the cable. After all he has to sign the job off saying all relevant building regs have been complied with.

    You could go down the third party inspection route.
  8. Baron88

    Baron88 New Member

    As I mentioned in reply to terrymac, i'm getting it quoted both ways so i can way up my options, so one with me doing 1st fix and then the second with him doing it all. But how much cheaper can they get parts?

    You are right, a lot wont entertain the idea, and he has said/warned that if he's not happy then he'll charge me to put it right, which is fair. But I dont plan on messing it up hence this thread and me getting all the information together to make an informed decision.

  9. terrymac

    terrymac Screwfix Select

    If spark is happy for you to do it ,and you make those savings then go for it ,that's gonna save you a packet.
    Baron88 likes this.
  10. Baron88

    Baron88 New Member

    Metal boxes for any brick walls and drywall boxes for drywall/studs walls, but i'm open to ooptions hence this thread.

    What is this third party inspection route? Please tell me more.

    My aim would be to catalogue the whole rewire with photos of cable routes, intersects etc as well as schematics and be for whatever i did and the sparky does. That way (in my mind) if i have an issue could very easily be diagnosed or if someone raises a question then it i can show them exactly whats occured.

  11. Baron88

    Baron88 New Member

    Thank you very much for your input!
  12. Comlec

    Comlec Screwfix Select

    Third Party Inspection was introduced to Part P on 6 April 2014. It allows for a person or company not registered with the CPS(Competent Persons Scheme) to carry out electrical work under the supervision of a third party certifier. The third party certifier must me notified before any work commences and will inspect first and second fixes. However, you will still have to pay for testing if you do not have the competence to do this yourself.

    Only NAPIT and STROMA run such schemes and you would have to use one of their members. It is an option but not really meant for the talented amateur but intended to be used by installers or companies who are electrically skilled but not registered with a CPS.
  13. Sparkielev

    Sparkielev Screwfix Select

    Are you any other work the house yourself ? Like fitting the kitchen, running pipework for heating and water, plastering ect
  14. booboobabkins

    booboobabkins New Member

    It doesn't work like that £65 for one socket so if there's one 2m away that can't be £65 too. That's not how using a system of £65 per socket works. £65 per socket and £55 per down light is a way of working a coat put using a system of averages for the overall job one socket may have an actual cost with Labour and materials of £40 one maybe £80 It's worked out over years of experience and a way to price a job instead of itemisng every single run or piece of work and how far away it is from another. To actually work out a price like that would take about a week and who pays for that time. Photos mean nothing to where a fault may end up at the end and who's to blame, or as to how and exactly wear cables are run in order to pass the regs for that given circuit. I know you're trying to understand and save money but this is exactly why it's so hard to earn any money on domestic work. And why people end up spending more. As to laser levels they dont determine the depth of a box or if it's flat against the back that's what they'll be thinking of.
    Baron88 likes this.
  15. Hans_25

    Hans_25 Screwfix Select

    Having just had my house rewired and done a lot of the work myself I can provide the following insights:
    - there is a lot more to it than meets the eye. Unless you are in regular contact with a qualified/competent spark, you're not going to know all there is to know about doing it properly and by the book.
    - experience trades people will offer advice on alternative ways of doing things which will save you time/money/hassle. e.g I had planned 2 circuits - a ring final (32A) downstairs and a radial (20A) upstairs. Spark suggested doing two ring finals instead due to the length of the circuits and split them left side/right side. A much better solution in my situation.
    - circuits should be dead tested after 1st fix. Once stuff is plastered over, its one heck of a job fixing things.

    The best way to do this IMO is to work with the spark in parallel - you act has his side kick doing cut outs etc under his direction. This means taking time off work but you'll be amazed what you can get done in a week if everything is prepped before hand (rooms cleared, floorboards up/ceilings down etc)
  16. Baron88

    Baron88 New Member

    Where suitable, I'm planning on doing a lot myself. I'm lucky to have my father to help with a lot of the work who's a retired plumber, so he can do all of the general plumbing modifications (except anything that touches the gas).
  17. Tony Goddard

    Tony Goddard Screwfix Select

    I thought I read somewhere Stroma were packing in scheme operating and selling out?
  18. Baron88

    Baron88 New Member

    I have to admit that maybe most of my confusion for this way of pricing is so different to what I'm use to in my day to day life. I'm a design engineer by trade, so I design, build and cost up construction equipment (diggers etc.), so I do work in that itemised manner

    I have to admit that having a blanket £65 per socket method is very confusing for me, I understand the basic principles in the why standard within industry, but it’s very hard for me to wrap my head around it because it’s such a divorce from what I do in my day to day life. I'm a design engineer by trade, so I design, build and cost up construction equipment , so I do work in that very methodical, itemised cost per meter kinda manner. But I guess that’s the difference between a trade and manufacturing based professions.

    In your opinion then booboobabkins, what’s your recommendation for me to save some cash and for the sparky to make money? Because at the end of the day that what I really want to occur.
  19. Tony Goddard

    Tony Goddard Screwfix Select

    Unfortunately you can't work out a cost in the same way as you do in manufacturing. If I'm making a commercial heating control panel up for a client thats easy, I have the cost of the parts, I have a margin on them and I know how long the build will take and thats the rest of the charge - I know my profit and expenses upfront. In a building re-wire we use the averaging system and on some sockets you may win a bit, on others you may loose - it's not perfect but it works.
    I offer two types of service, method A as you have been offered or method B, an exact quote for the parts and an hourly rate of £25/hr (the going rate in these parts) and an estimate of the time. The customer then takes the gamble on time, I would say that the customer wins that way in most cases. The local authority who I do a lot of work for only do it that way except for them I order the parts on their purchasing account from their preferred supplier and then charge them the hours for the jobs, their surveyor tells me he prefers to pay trades by the hour as it works out cheaper than quotes in most cases - of course there is an element of trust in that method, but if I took the mickey he would just not use me.
  20. Hans_25

    Hans_25 Screwfix Select

    As I mentioned above, best way is to work with the Spark, may be that you have to employ him on a day rate but then trust comes into it. Only way really is to speak to some trades peeps and discuss options for working together so that you're both happy.

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