How else would they know

  • Thread starter Thread starter Allsorts
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Allsorts said:
Thank you, Heat - these are, indeed, answers.

Unfortunately I believe you are in denial as any impartial look at the current situation in NI will demonstrate. You seemingly don't accept the change in the voting patterns that are taking place over there, even tho' you live in the middle of it.

This does not surprise me as your unmoving colours to the shogglie mast.



As for your sarcy comments about Republicans being 'friendly' and 'law abiding', I don't really know how they compare to the Loyalists in these respects. Do you have any factual information to suggest how they compare? Having read books about both sides, it seems to me as though there are the most brutish of thugs in each group. One could argue - should one wish to look on this impartially - that only one side has been repressed through history. Not that that justifies thuggishness, of course.

I wonder, would you dare to try a Google for something like "will Brexit affect Irish unity?" or anything of that ilk and then - this is particularly important - do a quick search on each of the main sources in the returned results to determine each one's level of bias. Of course I'm suggesting you then choose the most reliable and impartial sources, and not one from whatever your normal daily read happens to be*.

What do you find?

I used 'Allsides' to check each source, after having checked 'Allsides' itself in the same way. I think I managed to find balanced sites.
Click to expand...

Allsorts, - Your bias and clearly armchair research is showing in the above post of yours.
The
[“change in the voting patterns ...over there”]
is an odd statement from you.

A “change” in voting habits would mean a swing to another party, or away from a party. But I know you didn’t exactly mean that. Take a look at birth rate, but also DO take a look at what many of the British do when faced with a choice of further education in NI or on mainland.
Not always for same reason, but very telling.
Wouldn’t want there to be discrimination or hostility or inconsideration against the British population, - would you Allsorts?

Loyalist thugs, Republican thugs, - all thugs.
Waken up and research which side is involved in terrorism still, who are the thugs, if you honestly don’t know. And then there is the divisive mischief which I previously referred to.

[“One could argue - should one wish to look at this impartially - that only one side has been repressed through history”]

Really?? Well I am sure that IF you do look impartially, then you DEFINITELY WILL find repression throughout history AGAINST both sides.
You cannot claim one side is discriminated against, when the same can clearly be said about the other. That is just propaganda.
Take a look at how Eire was run, with only a pretence to equality.
Obviously there is the Catholic Church cover ups, which none of us will not now have heard of, but note this was what the British in the north had warned about, but were ignored.
Research the murdering done by Irish republicans on both sides of the border against British or just simply Protestant people, from the 1920s to the 1960s. (Yes, before the troubles!)
Would you expect there to be a trust and no discrimination?
Research the use of enforced (compulsory) Irish Language education on every child in Eire in the 20th century. Still applies to date I believe.
Good luck getting a job in the Garda (Irish police) or in the Irish civil service, without Irish Language.
Is that discrimination against British people, given that Ireland is a fully English speaking country?
Do not get me wrong, - plenty of very decent people in Ireland. I am just pointing out that if you actually believe that the Brits were the problem, then you missed what so many have said.
Appropriately the timing is now to bring up your slip you made previously about “the future is not orange”.
I will correct you. The future IS orange, - or your remark would be deemed discriminatory, repressive, bigoted.
The future is green and orange, Irish and British. The future HAS to be orange, or there will be no future.
You will never unite Ireland by pretending the future is only for some Sinn Fein people.
 
Heat said:
Allsorts, - Your bias and clearly armchair research is showing in the above post of yours.
The
[“change in the voting patterns ...over there”]
is an odd statement from you.

A “change” in voting habits would mean a swing to another party, or away from a party. But I know you didn’t exactly mean that. Take a look at birth rate, but also DO take a look at what many of the British do when faced with a choice of further education in NI or on mainland.
Not always for same reason, but very telling.
Wouldn’t want there to be discrimination or hostility or inconsideration against the British population, - would you Allsorts?

Loyalist thugs, Republican thugs, - all thugs.
Waken up and research which side is involved in terrorism still, who are the thugs, if you honestly don’t know. And then there is the divisive mischief which I previously referred to.

[“One could argue - should one wish to look at this impartially - that only one side has been repressed through history”]

Really?? Well I am sure that IF you do look impartially, then you DEFINITELY WILL find repression throughout history AGAINST both sides.
You cannot claim one side is discriminated against, when the same can clearly be said about the other. That is just propaganda.
Take a look at how Eire was run, with only a pretence to equality.
Obviously there is the Catholic Church cover ups, which none of us will not now have heard of, but note this was what the British in the north had warned about, but were ignored.
Research the murdering done by Irish republicans on both sides of the border against British or just simply Protestant people, from the 1920s to the 1960s. (Yes, before the troubles!)
Would you expect there to be a trust and no discrimination?
Research the use of enforced (compulsory) Irish Language education on every child in Eire in the 20th century. Still applies to date I believe.
Good luck getting a job in the Garda (Irish police) or in the Irish civil service, without Irish Language.
Is that discrimination against British people, given that Ireland is a fully English speaking country?
Do not get me wrong, - plenty of very decent people in Ireland. I am just pointing out that if you actually believe that the Brits were the problem, then you missed what so many have said.
Appropriately the timing is now to bring up your slip you made previously about “the future is not orange”.
I will correct you. The future IS orange, - or your remark would be deemed discriminatory, repressive, bigoted.
The future is green and orange, Irish and British. The future HAS to be orange, or there will be no future.
You will never unite Ireland by pretending the future is only for some Sinn Fein people.
Click to expand...

Heat, I am trying to not have bias. I don't have a side in this situation. I find both Catholics and staunch Protestants equally loony. Although I have read a few books and tried to develop an interest in what is, after all, currently part of the UK, I wouldn't begin to pretend to have more than a perfunctory grasp of the situation. And absolutely it isn't a simplistic 'good side' & 'bad side' situation, nor a 'repressed side' versus the 'oppressors'.

So, fill me in - but keep it relevant, significant, factual and impartial.

For instance, your reference only to the murders carried out by Irish Republicans from the 1920's - whilst disregarding British rule or the violent suppression of the Easter Rising - speaks volumes, as is your reference to the Catholic Church cover ups. Etc. Your side is squeaky, eh?

One side.

You should know that I have no sympathy or support for the Catholic Church and would not seek to defend any foul action by them, and ditto any sectarian killings and brutality on either side because - by gawd - it existed and exists on both sides (or were the Shankhill Butchers just a bunch over-excitable lads?)

Tell us any tale you like, Heat, any story, and factual political incident. But don't just tell us about those who you consider to be the baddies. Don't just throw mud.


Anyhoo, this is all actually a diversion from the real point; REGARDLESS of who are the naughtiest perps on that Isle, the simple undeniable fact is that there is a steady move towards reunification, and this has been exacerbated by the Brexit vote of which you were an unwitting part.
 
Heat said:
Allsorts, - Your bias and clearly armchair research is showing in the above post of yours.
The
[“change in the voting patterns ...over there”]
is an odd statement from you.

A “change” in voting habits would mean a swing to another party, or away from a party. But I know you didn’t exactly mean that. Take a look at birth rate, but also DO take a look at what many of the British do when faced with a choice of further education in NI or on mainland.
Not always for same reason, but very telling.
Wouldn’t want there to be discrimination or hostility or inconsideration against the British population, - would you Allsorts?

Loyalist thugs, Republican thugs, - all thugs.
Waken up and research which side is involved in terrorism still, who are the thugs, if you honestly don’t know. And then there is the divisive mischief which I previously referred to.

[“One could argue - should one wish to look at this impartially - that only one side has been repressed through history”]

Really?? Well I am sure that IF you do look impartially, then you DEFINITELY WILL find repression throughout history AGAINST both sides.
You cannot claim one side is discriminated against, when the same can clearly be said about the other. That is just propaganda.
Take a look at how Eire was run, with only a pretence to equality.
Obviously there is the Catholic Church cover ups, which none of us will not now have heard of, but note this was what the British in the north had warned about, but were ignored.
Research the murdering done by Irish republicans on both sides of the border against British or just simply Protestant people, from the 1920s to the 1960s. (Yes, before the troubles!)
Would you expect there to be a trust and no discrimination?
Research the use of enforced (compulsory) Irish Language education on every child in Eire in the 20th century. Still applies to date I believe.
Good luck getting a job in the Garda (Irish police) or in the Irish civil service, without Irish Language.
Is that discrimination against British people, given that Ireland is a fully English speaking country?
Do not get me wrong, - plenty of very decent people in Ireland. I am just pointing out that if you actually believe that the Brits were the problem, then you missed what so many have said.
Appropriately the timing is now to bring up your slip you made previously about “the future is not orange”.
I will correct you. The future IS orange, - or your remark would be deemed discriminatory, repressive, bigoted.
The future is green and orange, Irish and British. The future HAS to be orange, or there will be no future.
You will never unite Ireland by pretending the future is only for some Sinn Fein people.
Click to expand...
I hate to tell you this but most britons don't care.
 
Allsorts said:
Heat, I am trying to not have bias. I don't have a side in this situation. I find both Catholics and staunch Protestants equally loony. Although I have read a few books and tried to develop an interest in what is, after all, currently part of the UK, I wouldn't begin to pretend to have more than a perfunctory grasp of the situation. And absolutely it isn't a simplistic 'good side' & 'bad side' situation, nor a 'repressed side' versus the 'oppressors'.

So, fill me in - but keep it relevant, significant, factual and impartial.

For instance, your reference only to the murders carried out by Irish Republicans from the 1920's - whilst disregarding British rule or the violent suppression of the Easter Rising - speaks volumes, as is your reference to the Catholic Church cover ups. Etc. Your side is squeaky, eh?

One side.

You should know that I have no sympathy or support for the Catholic Church and would not seek to defend any foul action by them, and ditto any sectarian killings and brutality on either side because - by gawd - it existed and exists on both sides (or were the Shankhill Butchers just a bunch over-excitable lads?)

Tell us any tale you like, Heat, any story, and factual political incident. But don't just tell us about those who you consider to be the baddies. Don't just throw mud.


Anyhoo, this is all actually a diversion from the real point; REGARDLESS of who are the naughtiest perps on that Isle, the simple undeniable fact is that there is a steady move towards reunification, and this has been exacerbated by the Brexit vote of which you were an unwitting part.
Click to expand...

Allsorts, I was never just doing “one side”.
My reply was simply to show that there was and is extensive discrimination against the British side.
This fact has been largely hidden.
Just puts a completely different perspective on what is normally only a very one sided story imo.
 
Heat said:
Allsorts, I was never just doing “one side”.
My reply was simply to show that there was and is extensive discrimination against the British side.
This fact has been largely hidden.
Just puts a completely different perspective on what is normally only a very one sided story imo.
Click to expand...

Cool, that's fine, Heat.

Keep it that way.

Nice and balanced like.
 
Allsorts said:
Cool, that's fine, Heat.

Keep it that way.

Nice and balanced like.
Click to expand...

I will do, Allsorts.
You also try to keep it all balanced and then we can have proper debate.

Just a comment on you “not having a side in this situation”, - you should.
Take the side of the decent person who tells the truth, no matter if the truth is hard to swallow.
Remember the terrorist can be very manipulative with their propaganda and lead you astray.
 
Allsorts said:
Jeepers, the delusion :rolleyes:
Click to expand...

Allsorts, No delusion with me.
My real life experiences allow me to be very sceptical about what I hear or read, be it from the media, or other.
But I do think you are the sort of person who would fall for what you read, therefore becoming delusional.
Sometimes the real truth can be very well hidden.
 
Whatevs, Heat. Whatevs.

You have got to ask yourself, what would possess me to be biased as you presume?

It's quite refreshing coming to an issue from the outside as I do, and with which you do not have any direct contact. Yes, my initial inclinations was to be very anti-Republican - when I was a yoof and things were black and white (and the white bits were what those who surrounded you thought, and everything else was black).

Can't begin to tell you of all the books I just happen to have read simply through interest, not from any particular attempt to educate myself on this issue - but those that I recall include Rebel Hearts, The Shankhill Butchers, Dead Man Walking, The Blair Diaries (oops, bias... :rolleyes:) and a recent one about that IRA infiltrator - what's his name, the Italian cove?

I can see the evolution of this campaign.

Sadly, all you have tried to do is 'redress' towards your side what you assume to require redressing. The rest of the UK is overwhelmingly anti-Republican, but you seem to think that this needs readdressing even further.

And all you have provided as examples are things to support your side.

Come off it, Heat - do you think I'm stupid?
 
Allsorts said:
Whatevs, Heat. Whatevs.

You have got to ask yourself, what would possess me to be biased as you presume?

It's quite refreshing coming to an issue from the outside as I do, and with which you do not have any direct contact. Yes, my initial inclinations was to be very anti-Republican - when I was a yoof and things were black and white (and the white bits were what those who surrounded you thought, and everything else was black).

Can't begin to tell you of all the books I just happen to have read simply through interest, not from any particular attempt to educate myself on this issue - but those that I recall include Rebel Hearts, The Shankhill Butchers, Dead Man Walking, The Blair Diaries (oops, bias... :rolleyes:) and a recent one about that IRA infiltrator - what's his name, the Italian cove?

I can see the evolution of this campaign.

Sadly, all you have tried to do is 'redress' towards your side what you assume to require redressing. The rest of the UK is overwhelmingly anti-Republican, but you seem to think that this needs readdressing even further.

And all you have provided as examples are things to support your side.

Come off it, Heat - do you think I'm stupid?
Click to expand...

It is not refreshing at all for to have to listen or read from people about issues who have come “from the outside”.
I hear regularily people talking about issues from an outside position. Often most people make a fool of themselves, although they don’t know it (obviously being oblivious to their lack of knowledge being from the outside).
I notice the path set by the liars in society is often followed by the rather silly, naive outsiders, like a donkey following a carrot.
No doubt you will use that with Boris, but how about Blair, or Gerry?
Who led you astray?
I do not support terrorism, or any evil from any side. Sadly you do not see that.
 
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