How prepared are we for EVs

Discussion in 'Electricians' Talk' started by Comlec, Oct 23, 2021.

  1. The Happy Builder

    The Happy Builder Screwfix Select

    Electric vehicles still pollute the air either dust from tyres, brakes and other components as well as just throwing dust up off the road as they drive over it.

    So there isn’t the tail pipe emissions, but they still cause air pollution.
  2. Bazza-spark

    Bazza-spark Screwfix Select

    By that token, humans and animals also pollute the air.

    They breath in air and breath out carbon dioxide, and their "tail pipe" emissions are methane. :oops:
  3. MGW

    MGW Screwfix Select

    There are things which man has made which I am sure damaged the earth, like the aerosol can propellent, however we have burnt wood throughout time, and oil and coal is just stored compressed wood, adding things to the fuel like lead can clearly cause problems, but burning vegetation is natural.

    Clearly chemically altering the fuel can both improve and cause more problems, and so we need to do it in moderation, and slowly work out if a new process has problems or not, we saw it with wonder drugs damaging babies, we were in too much of a rush.

    We have also seen in France problems with tidal power, and we have seen what large lumps of ice can do coming off wind turbine blades. As yet we don't know what will happen to EV batteries, seems they burn well, but what pollutants result when an EV catches fire?

    An odd one here and there is one thing, but like the aerosol what happens where we have many, we are rushing into it too fast, now is the time to slow down and evaluate. Is this [​IMG] really better than growing crops? OK on a roof which can't be used to grow on, but arable land used for this must be wrong.
    AndBlue likes this.
  4. Comlec

    Comlec Screwfix Select

  5. Jimbo

    Jimbo Screwfix Select

    Which is an entirely fair point. Panasonic just announced a battery with 5x the capacity at half the cost (see here) with production ramping up Q2 next year.
  6. AndBlue

    AndBlue Member

    Have to agree that solar fields is a waste of growing land. But its cheaper than putting them on buildings, and it seems they like to put them on nice green fields rather than the disused brown sites.
    As for wind power, lovely concept, but having seen a lot of pics where the blades are buried because they are worn out and can't be recycled, it makes you wonder at their true green credentials.
    Lots of good reasons to have an EV, but its not the only solution.
  7. Muzungu

    Muzungu Screwfix Select

    I would certainly look at something that could do 300 miles in the winter loaded up and with the heating on without having to panic over the last 50 miles or so.

    I will be interesting what Panasonic actually comes up with as I understand there are still issues with mass production, if this is the 4680 cell they are developing for Tesla. I also understand that the battery is over 5 times the actual size which means the extra range for the same weight and size will be around 15%.

    I will stand corrected if this is not the case.
  8. MGW

    MGW Screwfix Select

    This upload_2021-10-29_18-21-9.png looks good, however I ride an e-bike, and at 250 watt the help is very limited, max speed with assistance 16 MPH and it needs to get through these upload_2021-10-29_18-29-56.jpeg which is unlikely.
  9. longboat

    longboat Screwfix Select

    Having looked at the article that's the same conclusion I came up with.
    It's rather disingenuous to claim that this new battery has 5X more energy, which is supposed to make the reader go "wow", when so it should, as it's slightly more than 5X the volume of the 2170.
    The article also didn't make it clear as to what the 50% cost reduction referred to, or what the new size battery consists of?
    I suspect that the technology is the same (Li-ion) but the way this size can be assembled into one 'brick', instead of 4 for the same or greater output is where the real cost savings come in.
  10. MGW

    MGW Screwfix Select

    As I have said I ride an e-bike, and it helps climb the hills around here, but to balance you need to travel at 4 MPH and at 6 MPH the motor assistance with a hub motor starts to drop off, with a mid mount motor it works through the gears so slightly better, but without any box to carry tools I have to get off and walk and use the walk assist on many of the hills in Wales.

    I would say looking for 500 watt to 1000 watt to get up these hill, which means it is classed as a motorbike so you can't ride it on cycle tracks, so on the main roads you need to travel faster, so very quickly you reach a point where the human assistance is only a small part of the total used.

    I would say as a human we can put around 250 watt into the pot, so only way the trade bike will work, is where it is flat or this upload_2021-10-29_18-58-0.png style of e-bike so gears can be arranged so down to one MPH on the hills without loosing balance, I have used non electric version at work, designed to do around 8 MPH max, but easy way of carrying tools, the site was reasonable level, so worked well. I do question hub motor, a mid motor would be better.

    The stop me and buy one worked well, slow enough so no danger on walkways, but then we have councils putting up signs "No riding of bikes on pavement." don't think they realise what paving an area means, I have a paver outside at the moment resurfacing the road, pavement is a paved area, i.e. the road, so daft sign.

    So next is no cycling on the walkway, but the area between curb and shops is duel walk and cycle way, in fact [​IMG] sign means your not allowed to ride elsewhere, so [​IMG]this means your not allowed to ride on the road for motors, and there needs to be a cancel sign before you return to riding on the road. Round blue means must.

    It seems in France this upload_2021-10-29_19-16-53.png does not need a licence, limited speed etc. But it would carry as much as a trade bike and means it takes up less room on the road and parked,
  11. Okoak

    Okoak Active Member

    For all the talk of hand woven eco bicycles and eating insect protein and seaweed instead of roast beef, its interesting to note that the American President decided he needed to discuss climate change with the Pope for some reason today, and rather than having a zoom call he arrived in a convoy of 85 vehicles.
    I shall now have to spend the next 500 years putting my Weetabix box in a particular coloured dustbin in order to offset it.... Or better still I shall just go for an unessesary but enjoyable blast in my 3.2 litre v6 engined car and produce lots of co2 which apparently we need lots more of so we can all have pigs in blankets at Christmas.
    Mrboomal and longboat like this.
  12. longboat

    longboat Screwfix Select

    I'm with ya, Okoak, if these crazies are correct then we only have a few years left before the earth disintegrates in a ball of flames of our own making.
    If this 'climate crisis' is as serious as they say, then until, China, India, Russia and the good old US, of A, sit up and listen then I'm going to go out in style.
    The finest sirloin prepared on a wood fired stove every night for me.
    If only I could afford a luxury beach front property that's only a smidge above sea level to enjoy it in, like so many of those who brow beat us into compliance.
    And don't tell me to think of the children, my parents were assured that I would be living through an ice age at this point.
    Meanwhile, China is rubbing his hands together in glee at how pathetic we in the west have become.
    Rant over, :)
  13. quasar9

    quasar9 Screwfix Select

    I did some research into this. Basically current battery packs are based on 2170 and the new ones Panasonic are proposing are 4680, in essence 5x the volume of the former and hence slightly greater than 5x the charge capacity. There is no improvement in chemistry and hence the charge density remains the same. The cost advantage seem to come from not having to pack so many smaller batteries.
  14. Lee Ross

    Lee Ross New Member

    Im not confident we are prepared enough. Most supermarkets have EV points but only 3/4 per car park. When diesels finally go there will be a mass uptake in ev points for commercial and retail car parks for sure. A friend of mines company have been doing line marking and installs for supermarkets for a while now and they agree. More public car parks need upgrading and the UK needs to have the infrastructure in place to manage the EV influx that is coming.
  15. sally green

    sally green Active Member

    EV's as it stands, a disaster in the making.

    Too expensive
    Not going to be enough charging points for at least ten years imo.
    Battery capacity lacking especially when you do those long trips. Agreed long trips not often but they do happen
    Getting stuck in a ten hour delay on a motorway in very hot or very cold weather.

    For me to buy one as it stands the prices of EV's need to come down.
    Batteries must give better mileage and have capacity for fast charging EG, full charge within the hour
    Many more charging points.
    National grid needs a bigger capacity and because of EV's I can see electric prices shoot up.
    In time, EV's will be charged for entering certain parts of towns/city/etc just like the LEZ's.

    A positive re EV's especially in built up areas = less pollution will greatly benefit those living in rammed cities and towns.
  16. Wayners

    Wayners Screwfix Select

    There is such a shortage of charging points I've one only ever seen one charging point being used by a car and many points around me have been taken away because they were not used.

    Fast chargers are too expensive vs home chargers that are too slow for top ups.

    Until they sort the battery technology its dead in the water except for minted people that don't drive much that can charge at home. And no second hand market for battery cars because of the batteries starting to age. I predict its all over before it starts
  17. quasar9

    quasar9 Screwfix Select

    In small countries like UK, assuming we get very large car parks with a super fast charger in every bay, it may just work. For large countries, like USA, Australia, China ,India, Russia or Canada (KIV , vehicles in these countries need a powerful A/C and heaters too compared to Europe, consuming a big chunk of the battery power seriously reducing the range) , the distances that need to be covered make this impractical unless a new form of battery technology emerges. There are none on the horizon bar perhaps emergence of a super capacitor. If these can store the equivalent of something around 200 KW/h and weigh under 250Kg we are getting near current performance and range of a modern diesel. Only I don’t want to be around if this capacitor shortcircuits !
  18. Bob Rathbone

    Bob Rathbone Screwfix Select

    No one has mentioned the availability of the electricity needed to charge these vehicles, or the infrastructure required to distribute that electricity. Their seems to be a 'magic electricity source' somewhere that will instantly provide the means to charge a car battery anywhere at any time in a few minutes. Add to this the ridiculous idea of charges on lamp posts (that have a 20A supply in towns and smaller in rural locations, if you have street lighting) and the lack of planning becomes clear. It's just as well that EV's are expensive and the take up is slow, that may give time for either the infrastructure to catch up, or this fad to burn itself out in favor of a more achievable goal for our transport (that is not a bus or a bike for me, I live in Shropshire).
  19. quasar9

    quasar9 Screwfix Select

    Even without EV, the cables under streets in cities are regularly overloaded and catch fire. There are number of such incidents in London, usually reported mostly because there is a video, but must be common in other cities too.
  20. Kopseng

    Kopseng New Member

    If they are serious about the push for electric cars then it means most of us won't be able to have a car. Which feels like it's part of the plan. To save mobility for the wealthy as somebody mentioned about terraced houses etc.
    As for Norway having a high rata of electric cars, this is true. The biggest danger for the coastal ferries is now an electric car on deck due to the fire hazard. Imagine if all vehicles were electrified.. The amount of chaotic fires there'd be daily. Take a heat wave for example. There all well enough if you live in your detached sub urban house, however for the rest dfhd aren't accessible. Mental how they're declaring war on Co2 instead of all the other **** that pollutes the earth and air. Not to mention the amount of co2 released in the lithium battery profess alone is more than most cars will ever do.

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