How to measure and build a new staircase...

Discussion in 'Carpenters' Talk' started by Halfaudio, Sep 28, 2020.

  1. SoManyUserNames

    SoManyUserNames Active Member

    The top can be cut down a bit lower, pair it with the next piece that it tenons into and bring the top of that one down a bit also to give you the flat required. no one will ever know the difference and some joiners would bring these down a bit lower anyway.
     
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  2. SoManyUserNames

    SoManyUserNames Active Member

    @Halfaudio
    K I'm back, sorry for the delay, people keep expecting me to do work!!
    I have built the full 3d model, I am just adding the mortices and tenons to show how these work and draw up the dims needed.
    I will try and get these up later this evening.
    I have the wine out ready to start!!

    Full model.jpg
     
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  3. SoManyUserNames

    SoManyUserNames Active Member

    A look at the wall string Mortice and Tenon.

    The back or middle wall string will have the mortice rebates, the two end stringers will have the tenon left on.
    These can be machined in the same way as the tops of the risers and underside of tread.
    For this flight I would allow the tenon to be about 19mm thick and 12mm long, this will mean the end of the tenon finishes at the same depth as the tread rebates.
    The tenon is kept to the tread side of the stringers, this avoids having a shoulder line on the face edge and keeps the joint clean.
    The tenon wants to be a snug fit but not tight, to allow for some glue, as per the riser rebate into the underside of the tread.

    I should have tagged the picture, this is the top of the back wall string and the bottom of the top wall string.
     

    Attached Files:

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  4. SoManyUserNames

    SoManyUserNames Active Member

    Tenons for the newel stringers.

    Both tenons are similar but one is upside down, this is purely to allow for the stringer material being at pitch.
    There are a few different ways of doing these, I am going to show you the way I find easiest and cleanest to create.

    The top tenon.

    Plan view.
    The tenon thickness is ideally about one third of the stringer thickness, I still keep them to standard sizes so for this I have gone with a 1/2" or 12mm in new money.
    I have allowed the tenon to be 50mm in length, this will take you about half the depth of the newel post.
    I have set the tenon central to the thickness of the stringer, this will allow you to set the router to one depth for machining from both sides of the stringer. Some joiners will set the tenon to one side of the stringer but I like a shoulder all the way around the tenon.

    In this image you can see the tenon in plan view.

    Tenon length.jpg

    Side view.

    The tenon will be split into 3 equal parts. 2 parts tenon 1 part haunch. On doors and windows, the haunches run through to the edges of the rails, to make it neater on stairs the haunches are trimmed back to save the chance of having the mortice showing.

    Top of stringer tenon.jpg

    stringer tenon.jpg

    Bottom of stringer tenon.
    The same but upside down, will add some notes and images shortly.
     
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  5. SoManyUserNames

    SoManyUserNames Active Member

    Bottom of stringer tenon.

    Here is a quick image just to confirm what you probably already knew.

    bottom of stringer.jpg

    It is worth getting a bit of scrap timber and create a dummy mortice to try the tenons into as it is easier to adjust the thickness of the tenon rather than the width of the mortice. I will add some guidance on the mortices shortly. I will try not to work on Microsoft minutes!!
     
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  6. SoManyUserNames

    SoManyUserNames Active Member

    The newel mortice.

    The mortice holes are basically identical to the tenons, the bottoms of the holes may be a bit deeper to prevent the stringer not pulling in properly, the corners do not need to be angled, just me being lazy with the drawings.
    The mortice hole should be centred on the post. An auger bit I find best for drilling these out if you have a pillar drill this will help.
    Set your tenon width to the size of your auger bit, a bit if chiselling may be required, with an auger you can over lap the holes to remove as much meat as possible with the drill.

    Mortice hole.jpg
     
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  7. SoManyUserNames

    SoManyUserNames Active Member

    @Halfaudio

    I will get the setting out of the newel posts up next, the last bit of the jigsaw puzzle, then the fun begins.
     
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  8. Halfaudio

    Halfaudio Active Member

    [​IMG]
    Wow @SoManyUserNames you answered a lot of my questions already..
    Looks like I will need to remove the joist bit from the wall the greyish colored one am I right?

    I honestly don't completely understand how this end bit of the stringer needs to be cut. Sorry if am being a pain..


    [​IMG]
    Don't mind the caveman's kids drawings..

    [​IMG] I made it 20mm thick and 19 mm wide, should I adjust? I probably will.

    I have glued the rest of the boards, sanded and marked, its just a matter of or routing out and shaping them a good weather would be nice.

    Can I cut straight lines under the stairs when I cut the stringers so I can fit plasterboard normally and make a usable space like a storage something similar as before.
     
  9. SoManyUserNames

    SoManyUserNames Active Member

    @Halfaudio

    The tenon size is fine, I wouldn't bother adjusting it.
    Yes, the packer between the joist and the wall looks like the end will have to be cut back, I will do a quick image to show how the trimmers, newel post and landing nosing all work.
    For the underside, I would still make it as drawn, then box it in square afterwards, saves material and is easy enough to do.
    Not being a pain at all, these are the questions I want for when I add these types of projects onto my website. When you know how to do something you forget the learning processes you went through on the way.

    The walls on your workshop didn't look very well insulated, I guess it is a bit cold in there at present!!
     
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  10. SoManyUserNames

    SoManyUserNames Active Member

    I will go a bit more in depth on this later on, but the top of the wall string and the newel post are both notched over the trimmer that is fixed across the ends of the joists you have sticking out at present, the top landing nosing will be rebated so that it is only as thick as the floorboards that it matches up to.
    I have drawn a basic visual that may give you an idea.

    I am not an interior designer but probably wouldn't go with my colour scheme!!
    Landing connection newel side.jpg landing connection wall side.jpg
     
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  11. Halfaudio

    Halfaudio Active Member

    My wife still has a continuous uncontrollable giggle after this..
    I found this not so funny because I am the one out there.. :D

    Edit: I see now I think I get it!
     
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  12. Jord86

    Jord86 Screwfix Select


    I would hang on to your missus for dear life because to put up with a ladder for access to upstairs for what must be months by now means she's one of, if not the very best of the female species.
     
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  13. Halfaudio

    Halfaudio Active Member

    @Jord86
    I am aware of it yes, but I shall not show it or admit it otherwise her nose will be in the clouds
    She is very supportive if i treat her right :rolleyes:
     
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  14. Halfaudio

    Halfaudio Active Member

    [​IMG]
    My legendary "paint" skills comes in handy I should consider making a living out of it.
    This is how I understand it.
    I still don't get it where do I secure it and how? To the wall and somewhere else?
     
  15. Jord86

    Jord86 Screwfix Select

    Very good and accurate paint job. If the treads were MDF and to be carpeted you screw through the nosing down into the trimmer but obviously not if a clear finish. You also screw through the string at the underside of the staircase into the wall, use frame fixings, large screws or thunderbolts and it will be solid. The stairs is leaning into the trimmer joists as opposed to trying to drop vertically so even if there weren't any fixings in it once it's boxed in underneath it can never go anywhere drastic or spontaneously disassemble.
     
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  16. Halfaudio

    Halfaudio Active Member

    @SoManyUserNames
    The weather is killing me I don't even want to go out, but seems like Monday we will have +5 so expect update.
    Is this how it looks or is there something else do adjust at the end?
    [​IMG]
     
  17. SoManyUserNames

    SoManyUserNames Active Member

    @Halfaudio

    Almost, when moving the jig, just move it back not down.

    Kite rebate.jpg

    I certainly hope it warms up, I have to go back into my workshop next week and it is not much warmer than yours, one sheet of plasterboard on the inside with feather edge on the outside and polycarbonate roof. At least it will stop the wind.

    Still in looonny tunes mode this week but will try to get newel post up early in the week.

    Just working on the next flight for you!! 3 G floor.jpg
     
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  18. SoManyUserNames

    SoManyUserNames Active Member

    @Halfaudio

    Just spotted that is the top stringer, so 10/10. there is enough left over the top to blend into skirting and below the tread will be cut to sit over the landing. Spot on dear fellow.
     
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  19. Halfaudio

    Halfaudio Active Member

    @SoManyUserNames

    Ufff move back the jig ahh i see i did that a bit wrong didn't i, but no wories since i have 5° not 7° right? Just trying not to panic here.

    Sounds like you are working in a big shed, definitely better than my setup.. I was outside the other day trying to work, but I had to stop since the cold wind and snow was blowing in my face.

    My neighbour's are most likely thinking i am nuts..I was washing my car yesterday, my hands were freezing the water in the bucket turned in to ice slushy when i took a break and i couldn't even finish the job since the bloody water in the hose froze, good idea i didn't pull out my pressure washer..
     
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  20. Halfaudio

    Halfaudio Active Member

    @SoManyUserNames
    @Jord86
    My main followers..
    Right did some work today. Tomorrow more rain, but I might just add a wall or two :D to my workshop and carry on...
    Pictures, I have sanded it filled with wood filler in couple of spots and more sanding.. cant feel that it ha been glued together I feel like I will paint it in the end lol...

    How many mistakes, tell me none pls...
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
     

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