How to measure and build a new staircase...

Discussion in 'Carpenters' Talk' started by Halfaudio, Sep 28, 2020.

  1. SoManyUserNames

    SoManyUserNames Active Member

    @Halfaudio

    This is just a quick guide to the tread and riser ends, I am popping out for a while will add some images this afternoon to help with this.

     
  2. stevie22

    stevie22 Screwfix Select

    I have to praise the brilliant skills and input from SoManyUserNames and the work that the OP is producing. What a great project to follow. Is 300 posts a record?
     
    Halfaudio likes this.
  3. Halfaudio

    Halfaudio Active Member

    @stevie22 Glad you like it.

    @SoManyUserNames
    I had a hard day and ended up swearing something that I usually don't do..
    Maybe I am just over exaggerating, but seems like the bottom winder is going to bring me some trouble.

    1) Is this a mistake or this is completely ok to leave? Otherwise the risers rebate on the tread won't add up with the stringer riser rebate.
    [​IMG]



    This is not looking very professional..
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    2) Looks like things somewhat add up on the newel post, but then the stringer side needs more sanding off is this a normal thing?
    First stringer(the smallest one) is still a bit bowed and it makes things harder..
    [​IMG]
     
  4. SoManyUserNames

    SoManyUserNames Active Member

    @Halfaudio

    Going 4: The end of the tread should not have needed thinning down only the end may have needed dressing back but at the same profile as the nosing.
    Does the riser rebate on the underside of the tread line up with the rebate in the newel post?
    Are you going to paint the newel post?
    There are ways around this.

    Last picture:
    yes, this looks as though it still needs dressing in a bit. with the tread pushed into its housing, just draw a line around the nosing, this will tell you how far back to dress the end in.

    Will add a couple of images.
     
  5. Halfaudio

    Halfaudio Active Member

    @SoManyUserNames
    Hi, yes the riser rebate adds up on both sides since i took a bit off some meat, mentioned in first picture.

    Yes the newel posts will be painted the rest is not clear just yet.

    Wool carpet will cover most mistakes, but i like a nice job and just in case in the future something changes and we decide to take the carpet off there will be no mistakes shining in your face.

    I have thought about a good wood filler, but not sure that will look very clean.

    Looks like the stringers have bowed a bit and I struggled to put it all together. I will get wider clamps and clamp it together.
    I sort of got it together except for a tread nr 10, I just could not come up with anything to get it in there.


    So i came up with an idea
    Firstly i need to raise the whole staircase up at around 1m then forward and off the wall a bit.

    I need to remove the top wall string slide the tread inside add a wedge and then add back the top stringer and jam back all the treads and wedges..
     
  6. SoManyUserNames

    SoManyUserNames Active Member

    @Halfaudio

    K seems like you have a grasp on it, yes you will probably have to lift the stairs to get the last string into place.
    I will draw up how to patch the stringer so you can let the tread in again. This will save using filler and only the most observant of people will ever spot the patch, I have done this myself and I bet 99% of joiners have also done this at some time in their life. To be quite honest with you very few carpenters would do what you have done and to have a small learning piece like this to patch is nothing.

    Making the pieces is always the easy bit assembling and fitting into place is the hard bit. hunt down a good friend to give you a lift with the stairs once it is together as it will be quite heavy and will need to drop vertically as it will long corner and lock up otherwise.

    Also, have a beer ready for when you get it into place, you will need it.

    Have you sussed the draw dowels? Or would you like me to do a quick guide on how to best use these and the temporary dowels for testing everything?
     
    Halfaudio likes this.
  7. SoManyUserNames

    SoManyUserNames Active Member

    @Halfaudio

    A quick pic to show the easy way to find out how much of the nosing needs trimming back.

    tread rebate marking.jpg
     
    Halfaudio likes this.
  8. Halfaudio

    Halfaudio Active Member

     
  9. Halfaudio

    Halfaudio Active Member

    @SoManyUserNames
    [​IMG]

    This is the last piece of the puzzle that I needed sorting (and a few more little bits lol) Half newel and top upper newel post I made simple mortice and tenon joint.
    I am in the process of making m&t joints for the handrails, but the mortices in newel posts will need slight adjustment and handrail tenons look slightly different. I will get a picture up later, my goal was to get the 2mm gaps at the top and bottom of the handrail and 90cm from the tread pitch line to the top of the handrail to comply with the regs.
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    The wall is long and quite a bit out of level so we had done a few tricks on the wall, It will all make sense why there is this glued piece.. (loads of picks once done will be provided)
    [​IMG]

    Random pictures...
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    No dowels in, but still holding like magic.
    [​IMG]
     
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  10. SoManyUserNames

    SoManyUserNames Active Member

    @Halfaudio

    Looking good, it is worth making a couple of metal draw dowels for initial assembly, these can be hammered back out if needed while setting up.
    It looks as though you have it all sussed now, just the final wiggle on glueing it all in to place.
     
  11. Halfaudio

    Halfaudio Active Member

    @SoManyUserNames
    I have been using some weird softwood dowels they are super soft and come out really easy.

    I will draw up how to patch the stringer so you can let the tread in again
    I would like to see this trick if you are still up for it.
     
  12. SoManyUserNames

    SoManyUserNames Active Member

    @Halfaudio

    I will draw up how to patch the stringer so you can let the tread in again.

    I will get this this evening.
     
    Halfaudio likes this.
  13. SoManyUserNames

    SoManyUserNames Active Member

    @Halfaudio

    I think you may have a dovetail cutter for the router, if so rebate at least 9mm deeper than the tread rebate if possible.

    Find a piece of scrap timber and try to match the grain as much as possible to the bit you have just routed out.

    You will need to have a piece longer than the patch you need in order to be able to hold it while machining.
    Cut the patch closer to the length you need, glue and tap into place. leave for at least an hour before planning flat and re-routing.
    This will work for patching all sorts of things, long and thin for hinges etc.

    Dovetail cut out plug .jpg
     
    Halfaudio likes this.
  14. Halfaudio

    Halfaudio Active Member

    @SoManyUserNames

    Another few hours of good work. And some pictures.. Any mistakes better tell me now lol
    I still haven't done anything to the risers just yet.. In all honesty they are scarily wonky and I may experience some trouble with them.


    This may be a silly way, but it worked for me.
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    17mm were more up to my taste. I tried 12mm, but it felt like it could brake yes it took me longer, but I think it will be worth it. I didn't bother to remove 2mm from the bottom of the handrail I didn't see why would I as it will be covered when balusters and those spacer wood bits, what ever they are called will be going in.
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
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    I will definitely cut off the newel post shorter at the top, but how much is there a standard or just go with it and leave a few cm from the handrail?
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    Had to make the pictures smaller I don't want to upset the Screwfix server..
     
    Last edited: Apr 14, 2021
    Jord86 likes this.
  15. SoManyUserNames

    SoManyUserNames Active Member

    @Halfaudio

    Pretty much how I would have cut the tenons.
    The spacer bits or infill is something I forget about as I have only used it on one job, most of my work is natural finish hardwood; so it would show out have a different grain in the middle of the rail. One bit while I think about it, when putting the infill in place, use a piece of scrap that is wider than the grove as a backing piece for clamping the infill in, this will stop the infill squashing in too far.

    Looking really impressive. Nice clean job.
     
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  16. Halfaudio

    Halfaudio Active Member

     
  17. Halfaudio

    Halfaudio Active Member

    @SoManyUserNames

    I need help.. I feel like I will chop it and burn it soon.
    I have tried to assemble it several times now.
    Winders don't add up no matter what I do.

    Problem is space where to assemble and winders. When jam the normal treads in all goes well, but winders seem off meaning they end up being to large.
    Winders don't sail past so I can't get the risers in with out slight modifications to treads mentioned before. I just don't see how it is possible or I have made and error, but it is 2.7mm so I don't get it...

    Problem winder treads - 3,4 and 10,11
    Checked stringers several times over and over everything checks out.

    Stringers are a bit wonky and hard to determine square

    I understand it is hard from your position to determine what is wrong, I am pulling my hair out.
     
    Last edited: Apr 20, 2021
  18. Halfaudio

    Halfaudio Active Member

    The weather seems promising so made a decision to bring it outside tomorrow and try to assemble it there.
    Where should I look for mistakes if only those treads don't line up?
     
  19. SoManyUserNames

    SoManyUserNames Active Member

    @Halfaudio

    Sorry just picked this one up, I will try and guide you through this, this afternoon (Friday).
     
    Halfaudio likes this.
  20. Halfaudio

    Halfaudio Active Member

    @SoManyUserNames
    [​IMG]
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    MISTAKES OR WHAT EVER THIS IS
    Tread nr4, something is not right.


    Rebate for winder risers is 2.7 when measure straight or should it be at angle 2.7?

    Tread Nr3 didn't go in it was too short from the tread nr4 side and too long in the corner.

    Tread 10 needed corner sanding on both sides ... and tread 11 only went in after more corner sanding on both side.

    Tread nr 10 is blocked from view in some pictures with tread nr 3 it was a good spot where to rest it for the moment.
    When it came to winder treads nothing sailed past and none of them hit home with out sanding off more than you mentioned..
    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Apr 23, 2021
    Jord86 likes this.

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