How to measure and build a new staircase...

Discussion in 'Carpenters' Talk' started by Halfaudio, Sep 28, 2020.

  1. SoManyUserNames

    SoManyUserNames Active Member

    STAGE 2a - The rod - Diagram 2 - Risers 8-11 wall string dims.

    The dimensions shown are for the riser lines as the contact the stringer face, they are taken from the adjacent stringer face.
    These winders are very easy to get the angles, draw a line from these stringer marks to the centre of the newel post. this is your riser face, offset by 27mm for the nosing and 20mm back for the riser thickness.

    dia 2 8-11 wall string dims s.jpg

    Any questions please do not hesitate to ask, I do take some things for granted and forget to explain clearly.

    As on here, the dimension between stringer faces, I have allowed for 44mm stringer stuff, therefore the distance between inside stringer faces is 872mm
     
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  2. SoManyUserNames

    SoManyUserNames Active Member

    STAGE 2b - The rod - Diagram 3 - Risers 1 - 4 wall string dims.

    Here is the lower set of winders, this can be drawn the same way, the only difference is that the winders do not point to the centre of the newel post, I have drawn a line parallel with the face of the rear wall string at a distance of 800mm I have then given the dim's from the bottom wall string along this line to get the points to draw the riser lines through.

    Be as accurate as you can but at this stage as nothing has been cut a mm or so will not make a huge difference.

    Note: Not sure if you do this or not but it is best to measure from the 100mm mark on your tape measure: pro's and con's the good part is you can get the tape measure down on the material you are working on, making the dim's more accurate. The bad part is remembering to add the 100mm on when you measure or remembering to take it off sometimes, once drawn you can do a rough check by using the end of the tape to measure.

    These drawings are small enough that you could draw the outside of the stringers 100mm in from the edge of the board, this will allow you to clip the tape over the edge of the board to hold it while measuring, just don't drop the tape once started as if it lands on the floor and bends the end it change your dim's.


    dia 3 R1- 4 wall string dims s.jpg

    Here I have added the full flight.

    dia 4 R1 - 13 full flight dims s.jpg

    Will start getting stage 3 ready.
     
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  3. Jord86

    Jord86 Screwfix Select

    Partitioning's loss was joinery's gain. After the buildup so far Halfaudio better well make the bloody thing, I'm in suspense here.
     
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  4. SoManyUserNames

    SoManyUserNames Active Member

    Making me think this is, must be 30 years since I last made a staircase.
    Just thinking this afternoon, have to be careful when routing out the nosings, one angle the nose goes in fine the other angle you have to cut the nose back. Just glad I have cad and can build it 3d to check everything as I go. Might even have to go back into the workshop clear the spider webs and get some tools out.

    Will be good to see this through, HalfAudio may change his name to blowntransistor after this.
     
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  5. Jord86

    Jord86 Screwfix Select

    Yeah, was Halfaudio, then Blowntransistor, finished off as Crumbledcapacitor. ;)

    Similar with the kite risers isn't it, you have to chamfer a bevel on the ends for them to meet with the newel and strings? Next thread for you will be a cut string design and build.
     
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  6. SoManyUserNames

    SoManyUserNames Active Member

    Next thread will be a cut string! Very good.
     
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  7. Halfaudio

    Halfaudio Member

    Oh my my... I have ordered a better router and a couple of clamps
    I am starting to feel the pressure, after checking all the diagrams and trying to puzzle it all together in my mind i felt like my armpits had a leak and i need a shower .. I am not sure how will i handle all of that, but i will have to tackle it, no easy way out of this one..
     
    Last edited: Oct 13, 2020
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  8. Jord86

    Jord86 Screwfix Select


    You tackle any big or complicated job the same way as you would approach eating an elephant, slow, steady and one bit at a time, leave the tusks until last. Do each segment of the stairs complete i.e. cut and shape all the treads first, then the risers, newel posts and their housings, strings, cut all glue blocks and wedges at the same time, etc. Each small stage done is another one off the list.
     
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  9. SoManyUserNames

    SoManyUserNames Active Member

    As Jord says, a little bit at a time, hopefully I will guide you through this without too much for you to think about, each stage is quite simple, the hardest part of the whole thing is the final assembly, by then everything has been made and pre fitted so you will have a good idea of how it all works, the only thing you will need a mate or two to help while you get it into place.
    Slow and easy is the way, the slower you go the more progress you will make, you may mess up a couple of bits of wood but hey it's just wood.

    Ant tricky bits I will get you to do a test run on a small part first just to practice.

    Most jobs I do, I will turn up the first day, set the tool kit up, check each of the components against where they are meant to go, head for the cafe on the way home.
    Just gives you time to think the job through.

    If you get stuck or are not sure about anything just ask.

    If you can use a router, chop saw, hammer and chisels you can make a staircase. About 36 component parts excluding wedges and there's 52 of those but they are pretty easy.

    13 treads
    13 risers
    6 strings
    3 1/2 posts
     
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  10. Halfaudio

    Halfaudio Member

    [​IMG]
    Hi, @SoManyUserNames
    Going to draw it all on a spare board, but i got a question as it shows two different figures in two drawings.
    Are those two different readings or something else?

    And in the k code it says that it has to be "50mm minimum tread width at narrow end" for the winders, is this the case here?
    Just making sure before i strart drawing it..
     
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  11. SoManyUserNames

    SoManyUserNames Active Member

    Hi Half,

    It's me testing you! both are correct, now your confussed.
    the 377.85 is the dimensions on the stringer face, the 382.92 is the dimension at rebate depth.
    dims differ.jpg

    On the last 3 drawings I put up they are all on the surface of the stringer, the first set I put up I have marked in the rebate.

    Sorry for the confusion, I do things differently all the time, something else I have learnt, I need to adapt a routine when showing others.

    Full marks for picking this up, this is the eye for detail that you need, Keep this up and you will fly through making the stairs.

    If it will help I will post the drawings in one post so you know they are all marked from the same point.
     
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  12. Halfaudio

    Halfaudio Member

    @SoManyUserNames
    I feel like i got a good mark unexpectedly from a top teacher in school. :D
    It makes sense now!
    Yes if could, please.
    Once i draw everything up should i start with treads first as @Jord86 suggested? Cutting, gluing and making a nosing should be easy enough for a start i think.
    I bought evo-stik wood adhesive a while a go, will this be good enough or i need something of a better quality?
     
  13. SoManyUserNames

    SoManyUserNames Active Member

    STAIR ROD MASTER COPIES.


    Evo stik is good,

    Starting with getting the treads out is good, when cutting the treads always leave 2 -3 mm extra on the back of the tread, this will allow you to dress the treads in properly when fitting them, much easier than adjusting the riser lines.

    I have attached the two kite sections and the overall view.

    All marked from the stringer face to riser face.

    dia 3 R1- 4 wall string dims s.jpg dia 2 8-11 wall string dims s.jpg dia 4 R1 - 13 full flight dims s.jpg
     
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  14. SoManyUserNames

    SoManyUserNames Active Member

    CUTTING THE TREADS.

    The grain goes with the nosing.

    When cutting the treads always leave 2 -3 mm extra on the back of the tread.

    Get all treads cut before starting to mold them or you will need to set up twice, set up is where the time goes as it is important to get this bit correct. 0.5mm is a mile away in joinery.


    Running the riser rebate, If you have a skill saw, it is best to set that to about 9mm deep and set the guide up for 27mm from the guide face edge of the blade to the guide face, 27.5 is better than 26.5 or the nosing will not close up in its housing.

    To cut the back side of the rebate, set the blade face away from the guide to the face of the guide to 27 + 9 for the tongue, so 36mm at 9mm deep.

    The router between these two guide cuts.

    Mold the nosing, making sure not to remove any material from the centre of the nosing.



    I will knock up diagrams or visuals to explain each of these stages at some time tomorrow.
     
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  15. SoManyUserNames

    SoManyUserNames Active Member

    @Halfaudio I expect you've finished building the stairs and have them fitted by now or pulled all your hair out in frustration waiting for the forum to get back up and running!
    Let me know how far you have managed to get to and I will pick get things moving from my end.
     
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  16. Halfaudio

    Halfaudio Member

    @SoManyUserNames
    I was pulling my hair out... Is this a usual thing here? I was worried and thought i was banned or something then i wrote an email to screwfix and they said that it will be back on today.

    I was drawing the steps on the wall more than a week a go and wanted to make sure everything is going to fit. So after i did that i realized that we will have to fit a gnome size door under the stairs.I am 6'5'' tall but the door will be almost half of that. And if i had to fit a door in our living room i am not sure if that would even look okey.. Here are the pictures that should have been here a week ago :D

    OMG.... Imgur say it is over capacity o_O Can't login to post pictures, i feeling like the internet is against me :(
     
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  17. SoManyUserNames

    SoManyUserNames Active Member

    You must look like me now 6' 5" and bald, if you check out my profile you will probably figure out how to contact me for emergencies but we will keep this thread going on here for everyone else following it.
     
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  18. Halfaudio

    Halfaudio Member

    [​IMG]
    Is that how it should be?
    [​IMG]
    EDIT: I will have to shorten or move the electric box as well because it will be in the way..
    THe lines show ruff estimate where the door frame would be looking on the wall.
    [​IMG]
    Do i need to make the stringer wider? It looks like i will have no space for nosing.
    I made an ugly but straight and square router table, that i didn't had the gut to take a photo off ..
     
  19. SoManyUserNames

    SoManyUserNames Active Member

    @Halfaudio

    This should be wide enough, the nosing sits into where the margin piece is, this is why we use the margin piece as it keeps the nosing a constant distance from the top of the stringer.

    The paper pitch board is best out of a bit of mdf or something, you will be drawing around this.

    I will rustle up a quick few images to show how the marging and nosing pieces work.
     
    Last edited: Oct 26, 2020
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  20. Halfaudio

    Halfaudio Member

    A quick note to others out there about mdf. I can't work with it as it turns out i am allergic to the dust & glue mix and i wasn't the only one.. I build a nice router table of mdf and was very happy but i needed a few more pieces and i cut them inside the house and and that's where the sneezing and watery eyes started i had to throw out all my work because it was getting worse with every minute.. I have never experienced this before with particle boards or plywood.

    @SoManyUserNames
    Yes i will make the pitch board of something better, this was just a quick look.:)
     

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