How to measure and build a new staircase...

Discussion in 'Carpenters' Talk' started by Halfaudio, Sep 28, 2020.

  1. Halfaudio

    Halfaudio Member

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    I have done my homework. I have issues aligning the guide bush it keeps shifting around 0.5 or 1mm. I have placed extra nut on each bolt to lock them together, but don't have much fate in it. Have you had experience with this issue? I can keep using one side where it is correct, but seems a bit dumb..

    Should I just cut off the extra from the treads, because it leaves a big gap at the back.
    I will cut a sample riser tomorrow and mark the rebate for the treads.

    Should I route out now the rebate for each tread?
    The router bit I am using is 120.00 thick I know we agreed on 90.00, but what if I use the bit I already have? This shouldn't change anything just the thickness.

    The riser
    How to do the little lip? I could set up my small router table up in the snow :D No really, how do I cut it?
     
  2. Jord86

    Jord86 Screwfix Select

    I'll stick my oar in if that's ok seeing as Master Yoda is otherwise engaged..... Saw the remaining 2mm off the back of the treads with a table saw, use a circular saw with a guide fence or if you have a fixed planer/thicknesses run them through that to reduce to fit. With the shoulder rebate on the riser, your router table would be ideal, or clamp a straight edge across the riser then run a router with a straight cutter right through, or again with a guide rail or straight batten run a circular saw through a couple of times to remove the waste.
     
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  3. SoManyUserNames

    SoManyUserNames Active Member

    @Halfaudio

    Hi, sorry didn't check here yesterday, these are looking good.

    The router bit I am using is 120.00 thick I know we agreed on 90.00? is this the Dia of the bit? 12mm rather than 9mm if so yes use the one you have.
    If you have a router table that is the ideal way to set up for cutting the tongue onto the risers.

    I will do a quick couple of diagrams and be back in a couple of hours.
     
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  4. SoManyUserNames

    SoManyUserNames Active Member

    I haven't had this particular issue but you do get things like this happen, it is spotting it and working round that makes the difference between a good chippy and a poor one, especially when working to the tolerances and standards to get a staircase looking good. In your position I would as you say try and work from the point that you know is constant.

    I may even be able to do a couple of videos soon, had to empty the workshop of my Motorbikes over the weekend as some inconsiderate client has asked me to do work!! What is this world coming too?
     
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  5. SoManyUserNames

    SoManyUserNames Active Member

    Tongue size.

    Is this the dim you want to change to the router bit you have?

    Tongue width.jpg
     
  6. SoManyUserNames

    SoManyUserNames Active Member

    @Halfaudio

    By all means, go ahead and router out the rebates for the riser tongue, set it back about .25 to .5mm as the nosing will squash in a touch more when you use the wedges in behind the risers.
    To get the tongue if using 20mm thick material lift the cutter about 11.5mm or .5mm shy of the rebate depth and if using a 12mm router for the rebate you need to bring the cutter forward of the fence by 8mm. the tongue wants to be a snug but not tight fit as you need a touch of room for the glue to go in.

    Riser tongue.jpg

    You may find it easier to set the fence up on the router table for rebating the bottom of the treads, much easier than using the fence on the router, will also stop the router from twisting and digging in deeper as the fence comes clear of the material.

    Another thought, have you cut the risers to height yet? as they will need to be the rise plus rebate depth high, so 203 rise + 12 rebate depth, total 215 tall.
     
    Last edited: Dec 7, 2020
    Halfaudio likes this.
  7. Halfaudio

    Halfaudio Member

    @SoManyUserNames
    Yes exactly what i mean, like you did in the picture from 9 to 12mm wide (yes diameter), not necessarily 12 mm deep i can stay with 9mm deep.

    I will finally get to use the router table and my cheap parkside router. If only the summer would come back ..

    Haven't cut the risers just yet, but i was on it since i got the rods done. And i am safe with just couple of mm spare.

    @Jord86 assured i was on the right track and the idea in my head was the right one.

    I will have to tackle this tomorrow as quickly as possible i would like to get at least close to finish line till Christmas time..
     
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  8. Halfaudio

    Halfaudio Member

    @SoManyUserNames
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    I was putting things together just to double check before I route out the rebate. I have a problem the problem is 1mm big
    I have 202.00 instead 203.00
    The pitch board is good the only thing I can think of is the bearing, must have moved at some point because it doesn't want to stay in centre.
    Is there a good way how to tell where the mistake is or should I start routing again till I get this absolutely right.?
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  9. Halfaudio

    Halfaudio Member

    Ignore it, I should have measured at the stringer side where things don't move around doh...
    Nosing 27mm spot on
    Rise 20.3mm spot on
    Treads just need trim off I can proceed to next steps..

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  10. SoManyUserNames

    SoManyUserNames Active Member

    @Halfaudio

    Nice one and yes you can indeed, I need to get you the stringer drawings with dims over, I will try and get some over this evening.

    The next stage is to router the stringers out.
    Fit the treads with wedges tapped home firm but not tight, this will allow you to get an accurate mark on the back of the tread for trimming that last little bit off.
    I will see how much I can get done in the next hour, back in London tomorrow so 5:00 start again.
     
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  11. SoManyUserNames

    SoManyUserNames Active Member

    @Halfaudio

    I will do this in a couple of stages to show how I get the dims you are going to use.

    The first stage is to draw the stretch out or development of the stringers, so far we have looked at the plan view, the stretch out in this case, will be done side view stringer by stringer. When working on curved stairs you will have to open thee entire flight into a 2d drawing, I will show this later but for today we will just look at the section we are going to be working on.

    Here I have drawn the side view of the back wall stringer, the blue line shows the actual pitch lines.

    Next drawing about half an hour away, hopefully, this makes sense.

    Stretch out.jpg
     
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  12. SoManyUserNames

    SoManyUserNames Active Member

    Here I have drawn how the rear wall stringer will need to be jointed for marking the treads. Board "A" is about 3.4M long.

    I would normally draw the main straight out and then place the other stringer parts alongside these and rough them out, then you can cut them to the length needed and glue them all up. after this it is best to sand off the marks you have and mark the accurately for routing out.

    The winder treads you will have to measure along the going and use a straight edge to draw the full length of the going. You can then use the straight edge to place the pitch board onto to get the next rise, then either flip the pitch board round to set the next going or use a roofing square if you have one to hand.

    In the second image, I have given the going lengths for the winders and the pitch length for the straight goings, I have also added this in pdf format for print out.


    Wall string glue up.jpg wall string dims.jpg
     

    Attached Files:

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  13. SoManyUserNames

    SoManyUserNames Active Member

    This should keep your melons twisted until tomorrow evening and I will get some more up or explain these further in needed.

    Tomorrow I will show you how to get the curves at the top and bottom of the stringer, I need to draw out the stringers they attach too before I can confirm this, so leave them over height and length until the next chapter.
     
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  14. Halfaudio

    Halfaudio Member

    I have to watch out my roofing square is not 100% accurate. I have made some adjustments it is pretty good, but not perfect.

    I have a very thin long piece of wood for the curves i noticed this in one of the books. So i bought it a while a go..

    You have been busy, can't wait to see the next job, it is getting somewhat exciting.
     
  15. Halfaudio

    Halfaudio Member

    @SoManyUserNames
    I will do the rebate in the tread 11mm deep
    The raisers i have are 21.4mm wide and the rise is 20.3+1.1=21.4
    I am sure those 2mm extra won't do any harm, but it will save me a lot of cutting time.
     
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  16. SoManyUserNames

    SoManyUserNames Active Member

    That is fine, I will try and get the next lot of drawings up around 7 this evening.
     
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  17. SoManyUserNames

    SoManyUserNames Active Member

    @Halfaudio

    This is the opposite stringer that matches the first one, just working on the end strings, may be a bit slow, updated the cad software today and just trying to figure some of it out!

    The first image shows the stretch out or side view again, the second image shows the matching pair. Once you have these you can start practice with a dry fit to make sure the first few treads go together properly, I will get some tips up on how to go about this as soon as I have finished the stringer dim's.

    Wall string glue up.jpg Mid section strings.jpg
     
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  18. Halfaudio

    Halfaudio Member

    I honestly hate that parkside router. I had couple of runs to try it out but it was jerky and didn't leave nice finish I did play around with the rpm, but it still didn't my do perfect.. Can't compare with diy level trend...

    Once I got it set I made couple of rebates and I didn't notice how it moved up couple of mm ..? How is that even possible I could understand that gravitation is pulling it down if it isn't locked in properly or coming loose but up?..

    Anyway after all that my mistake was on the last tread 5mm yep 5mm this one is done, but two more treads had 2mm ok that is not that bad I could live with it just mix up glue with fine saw dust I should be ok!? Or am I nuts and talking nonsense here?

    After that crazy mess up I did some modifications and it all went well!
    Still have to cut couple of risers and make the tongue and run to the sawmill to get one tread and I will need some wood for the wedges any recommendations on this?
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    With the tools I got, I think it looks good.
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    My fancy working station
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  19. SoManyUserNames

    SoManyUserNames Active Member

    @Halfaudio

    Yep, that looks pretty good, better than some joiners I have seen.

    If the rebates are changing depth it will mean adjusting each tread to that width as they need to touch home or the glue will not hold, you could also have problems with the depth varying through the going or rise. routers will move if the lock screw is not tight, the cut will get shallower as the spring on the router is designed to push the main machine away from the bed.

    If the cut is getting deeper, then the bit is not tight, they normally have a little line on them that shows the ideal depth to push them into, set them to this depth or just a bit shy of it then you can check it every so often to see it is sitting in the same position.
    Never push the cutter in as far as it will go as this will not allow the collar to tighten down properly.

    If you have not used a router before? another thing to look out for is that the collars that sit around the bit and inside the nut that you tighten are pushed in, you should feel them clip into place once pushed properly into the nut, when undoing the nut to swap bits the collar should lift with the nut and release the bit, if the collar is not in the nut correctly the nut will come off and leave the collar locked into the stem still holding the bit. Big headache to release if this happens.


    For wedges, use any offcuts you have from the treads or stringers, normally about twice the thickness of the rebate, this allows you to give them a good wallop with a hammer to lock them home.

    I will get the other three strings up tomorrow and try to get the newel posts done too.

    I still have to show you how to get the curves but will get that up for tomorrow/Sat morning.
     
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  20. SoManyUserNames

    SoManyUserNames Active Member

    Just another thought, are these still tests you are doing? as the grain should run along the length of the board and not across it.
     

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