I need an investigatory plumber for this one!

Discussion in 'Plumbers' Talk' started by Rache, Nov 19, 2016.

  1. diymostthings

    diymostthings Well-Known Member

    Well maybe the programmer has been set for two "odd" on/off periods. Actually I wonder if the newly felt vibrations co-incided with the clock going back on October 30th? - In my (limited) experience people dont know how to re-set timers etc. Clutching at straws now though. Would be easy to check my theory...

    diymostthings
     
    Deleted member 33931 likes this.
  2. Rache

    Rache Member

    Yes to this. the 'knock' did happen at 8 mins past 1am, now it's 8 mins past midnight...

    But something tells me that the knock and the vibration felt soon after that is different to the really intense one that happens around 1 - 3am and again in the early mornings, around 5 - 7am. The 1 - 3am coincides with a leak from BOTH downstairs neighbour's pipe and the downstairs person underneath my next door neighbour. the one below my next door neighbour, her pipe is leaking the fastest. Also she is often up between 5 - 7 am, leaving for work earlier than anyone else and vibrations wake me then as well.

    Thanks for your time.
     
  3. Rache

    Rache Member

    Thanks, the environmental health people are now sympathetic, but keep repeating that really they are only supposed to control antisocial behaviour that creates noise, and this isn't that. Also they feel they cannot ask the neighbours to switch things on and off etc because it may have nothing to do with a neighbour. I am going to ask them once more if they could at least ask to do this, even if they cannot insist. They are concerned about harassing neighbours when they haven't witnessed this themselves, I have a witness, but now EH are saying we still don't know where it's coming from, so no idea who to approach. I say approach all three adjoining flat occupants. I'll try speaking to EH again.
     
  4. Rache

    Rache Member

     
  5. Rache

    Rache Member

    Not sure what happened, I think there was a glich as I attempted to reply with quote to diymostthings and then it just posted the quote and not my post....

    It's late so I'll keep this brief for now as I typed it all out already and lost it, I'll clarify anything else tomorrow.

    The knock comes from the flat downstairs, it would seem, and that flat, like mine only has storage heaters that are not connected to the water heater. I don't know if that means anything to you, I'm clueless.

    The more intense vibrations coincide with the person downstairs from my next door neighbour being home, and also with her pipe leaking quite fast. that's not to say that they're not coming from downstairs, it's just that I don't know and it seems linked to this other person being home.

    I suppose my question is, can you have a central heating pump for unvented cylinders only, even if there's no link to the heating, which is electric storage heaters?
     
  6. Rache

    Rache Member

    So I'm assuming if they have a programmer downstairs then I should get them to put it onto 'continuous' and see what happens would vibration happen immediately? the girl down there has turned her water heater 'on' and nothing has happened, but it was only on for ten mins. she said the night heater comes on regardless of whether she's home or not, etc.

    It's not easy to speak to this person any more because her landlord has asked me not to speak to her anymore. That's how crazy this situation is. Anyone would think I've been harassing people when all I've done is ask a few questions, but because they're not experiencing a problem they don't seem to want to know and the person in question isn't one to come in and have a cup of tea and a chat (and hence experience what I'm experiencing), but that's up to her of course.

    but I'll bear in mind what you've suggested as I could mention it to the management company for the landlords of the two properties in question to try. thanks.
     
  7. Rache

    Rache Member

    Actually, thinking this through I could ask the management company to send this instruction through to the two landlords, along with getting the issue of the leaking pipes sorted out.
     
  8. Rache

    Rache Member

    by the way, that 'knock' sound isn't always followed by vibration, only sometimes, just adding this as not sure if it helps.

    Sunday mornings is a big mystery to me because i'm always woken between 5 - 6am and yet no one's lights are on and no suggestion of where the vibrations might be coming from. the rest of the time it's usually the person who lives downstairs from my side neighbour, her lights are on and she leaves for work very early.
     
  9. I can sympathise with EH - as they say, they haven't experienced the nuisance for themselves, so will be reluctant to start asking people about it.

    They will know from experience with the usual noise issues -music, TV, talking too loud - that everyone has different levels of tolerance, so they need to check out that aspect before accepting it as being a 'genuine' nuisance.

    You now have a witness to this noise. Can I ask how 'independent' is this witness, and what they personally thought of the noise/vibration levels - they weren't just being a good friend and saying "Oh, yes! That's terrible!"?

    Nice one, diymostthings - since Rache has noticed the timings of the knock and vibs have moved with the clock changes, that surely, absolutely, totally pin-points this down to a timer-controlled event. So, the owners of the properties should be able to describe what timed systems are in place in these flats, and hopefully give that answer to the EH if not directly to you.

    Then - what is being controlled by these timers?!

    Could we possibly be getting close to an answer?!

    Rache, I'm guessing you still haven't been to CAB? If not, that's quite an omission. I would hope that they could point you in the way to make formal complaints about such nuisances, either to EH or direct to the flat owners.
     
  10. Rache

    Rache Member

    Yes maybe I should go to CAB, I only saw the suggestion last night. In the past CAB have only told me everything I've already found out on the net, no offence to them but that's been how it is, but I will see if I can see them later this week. I will also ask environmental health if they can at least ask my adjoining neighbours if they could pay a visit to check appliances. Surely this is better than visiting me on the off chance that they may feel a vibration.

    The person who witnessed it was a neighbour who's recently supported my mum in her new home, so a friend, but not really a friend of mine. He just gave me a lift back to the flat one day as he was going into town and helped me carry some furniture in, it was a saturday, the vibration was happening and I asked him to stop for a moment to see if he could feel it.

    the most reliable witness will be the tenant who moves in after I've jumped this ship..

    Great point about asking what is on a timer....but that is only for downstairs as the knock sound comes from there. Somehow i don't think whatever it is is responsible for the more intense vibrations that come hours later (only a gentle vibration comes after the knock and not every time), I'm still hoping those are linked to the leaking pipe from the person's flat downstairs from my side neighbour....purely because that is the first real coincidental, tangible sign of something going on when the vibrations are intense.

    I realise this is all guesswork, but really you guys have been great in helping me think it all through.
     
  11. Rache

    Rache Member

    Its still the issue of which of the three flats it is, really if I knew which one it was coming from I'd probably be less worried about all this and more likely to talk to them, I'm avoiding talking to anyone now because I feel I can't go on about it until I know where it's actually coming from....the management company are willing to write to the flat owners but are waiting for my plumber to email them and he hasn't yet.

    Thanks again.
     
  12. Rache

    Rache Member

    There may be one reason that's just occurred to me for why the plumber hasn't sent that email yet....he is due to check my own water heater as he says there is something amiss on it, something that he doesn't think is a big problem and he just needs the part for it. I've no idea what, but my landlady thinks it is that it can't leak off water if under pressure (from what he's said to her, but she admits she doesn't really know what the issue is)....he did say it might be linked to the vibration i'm getting but that he thought it most likely wasn't (enough for him to come and do those other checks on the outside pipes etc)...but maybe he wants to do that work first and see if that results in a change. I don't know, he didn't say that. I'll see what this week brings.

    (I should add that I'm keeping my water heater off at night so that I can be sure it's not mine, it also coincides with certain neighbours being home, but, if in the unexpected event it is mine, would it do anything if turned off anyway? I just use the immersion in the mornings at the moment)
     
  13. Rache

    Rache Member

    Ok, I won't keep posting until I get something tangible.....but just a quick note here that the economy 7 thing runs from midnight to 7am in winter, and 1am to 8am in summer. This coincides with the knock sound, it must be economy 7 coming on. I heard a knock at 7am the other morning also, that must be it going off again.

    As I say that knock doesn't always mean vibration, but often there is vibration 20 mins after it. I have economy 7 but my water heater isn't switched on because I'm trying to rule it out.

    I don't really know what I'm talking about here, lol, and so tired with it all. Could economy 7 switching on activate this pump thing...?
     
  14. I really don't know :(

    Economy 7 heating uses chust means an immersion heater switching on - hardly a cause for knocking. I can't imagine what a pump would be doing at the same time.

    I guess they may have an old electro-mechanical time switch - a large rotating metal dial - but if you can hear that go 'click' from a flat away, you have some awesome powers :)
     
  15. Rache

    Rache Member

    I wish, lol. Downstairs is just a bit of wood away really. I can hear laughter and coughing from down there. I did a google search and a lot of people hear this click so I guess it may have nothing to do with the vibration. The click itself doesn't bother me at all, just wondered if it was connected. I have economy 7 too but my water heater is switched off at night (to rule it out of all this), perhaps I'm hearing a click belonging to my own flat still, even though my water heater is off?
     
  16. Rulland

    Rulland Screwfix Select

    Unless you've isolated yours completely, your time clock could well be still whirring and clicking.
     
  17. Rache

    Rache Member

    Thanks. How do you completely isolate, is it something I could do as a lay person? I want to completely rule out my water heater as the cause of any vibration (though I'm sure it isn't because it happens more when certain neighbours are home and at weekends)

    Thanks for the info though, the click (it's only once, very precise, at 00.08 hours, lol) doesn't bother me on it's own.
     
  18. Rache

    Rache Member

    Just to confuse matters, it's happening now, as it does at weekends much more often, the side neighbour and people beneath him are in, the neighbour underneath me is out at work.

    I've checked all pipes and none are leaking though the two downstairs ones remain damp looking.

    Update from one plumber is that if there is just dripping coming from the pipes and it's not hot or steaming, then he's not sure that this is causing the vibration. Another plumber thinks it is, but there's no leaking at the moment, and yet the vibration is strong.

    Maybe it's nothing to do with those leaking pipes from both downstairs neighbours and it's coming from the side neighbour on my level....but from what...

    What else could do this?? I'll go back and read what was posted about the pump again....

    Or are the neighbours beneath my side neighbour using a subwoofer or something like that? But then if they are, that doesn't really explain the vibration that happens at a lower level during the week, after midnight until 2am, they are not up and watching stuff then as they're up for work at 5am.

    It's much more intense at the weekends though and occurs before midnight and often when they're in. My side neighbour (on my level) has just returned home, so he was out and therefore unlikely to have been using anything, but the neighbours beneath him are in. When they're home and often when they're up early at 5 and 6am there is also a 'pounding' noise/vibration that accompanies the other one. So there's like two, one slow pounding and another fast frequency one. Sometimes I think someone is stomping around heavily as well but I doubt that they are, I'm thinking it might be all part of the same problem (after all they are on a concrete ground floor beneath my side neighbour so I shouldn't be aware of them walking)

    I'll go back and re-read tomorrow and update probably in a week or so hoping there will be something more tangible by then, but any thoughts on what I've said are welcome. (sorry for the rambling I've been awake 18 hours now)
     
  19. chippie244

    chippie244 Super Member

    Buy a bottle of red wine and have a good kip. :):)
     
    Rache likes this.
  20. Rache

    Rache Member

    After reading around on google the other night I am pretty certain that the 8 mins past midnight thing is due to the economy 7 kicking in. It doesn't always coincide with vibration, just sometimes there is vibration around 20 mins afterwards but it could be unrelated to that.

    I'm intrigued about the pump thing, but as far as I'm aware all flats have unvented cylinders and storage heaters that are not connected. So would these cylinders still have pumps (sorry for my lack of knowledge here, but I'm learning more than I would like to, lol)
     
    Last edited: Dec 3, 2016

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