I think I've been had by the cowboys - your opinions please

Discussion in 'Tilers' Talk' started by sarad, Jan 31, 2007.

  1. sarad

    sarad New Member

    Hoping for some independent advice here.

    I've just moved into a new house and got tilers out to tile bathroom and ensuite including 2 showers. I'm not particularly happy with the quality of the tiling however, now I have a problem that both showers leak. I got the builders in to have a look as pipe work was leaking in both the showers, however, he nearly had a fit when he saw the tiling round the shower. The leaks in the pipes are now fixed but the builder is insisting that the shower enclosure needs to be removed, tiles removed and the job started again by someone who knows what they are doing.

    The main problems are as follows :

    The shower door has been fixed onto the wall and the tiles are just up to the door.

    No strip between the tray and tiles

    Not enough gap between some of the tiles and therefore not enough grout to make it waterproof.

    To make matters (possibly) worse, when my husband noticed the start of the leak (causes by problems with pipes), he sealed round the inside of the shower thinking he was helping the situation.

    My question is, should we do as the builder is strongly advising us and rip the whole lot out, start again and try to get some compensation from the tiler (won't hold my breath though). Or, should we wait until we have more leaks ?

    Thanks in advance for your opinions.
     
  2. leechy

    leechy New Member

    How have you paid them, if by cheque is it too late to cancel the cheque? I would and let them take you to court for the money!

    There are more qualified people on here than me but from what you have said it sounds like the job is completely wrong. Shower doors/screen normally go on top of the tiles to ensure a water tight seal.

    Grout lines should be uniform throughout and should always have grout in them! Your husband should not have had to seal the bath or tray as the tilers should have done this.

    I take it that they have not tanked the shower enclosure then, if not you may have problems down the line with water saturating the walls beneith.

    Sorry but it sounds like it needs redoing as your builder has said.
     
  3. sarad

    sarad New Member

    Unfortunately we paid them in cash - I know alarm bells should have rung. However, they were recommended by good friends although it was their kitchen they tiled.

    Thank you for your opinion - we are a little suspicious of the builders agenda which is why I came here for independent advice.
     
  4. audi-evo

    audi-evo Active Member

    "The shower door has been fixed onto the wall and the tiles are just up to the door."

    who fitted the shower door?
    i am just wondering (if the tiler did it) why he would fit the shower door then tile round it, sounds more work than tiling then fitting the door.

    Sounds like you had everything fitted then asked a tiler to tile round them.
    What exactly did you employ them to do?
     
  5. sarad

    sarad New Member

    No - the tilers fitted the doors and this is what I can't work out. When they came out to look at the job we hadn't got the shower enclosures but they said it was better if they had the enclosures. So we got them for them and they fitted them. We had expected to have to get someone out to fit it and were surprised that they wanted to do it and didn't want paid for doing so. This is what made me question what the builder was telling us as it seemed to me that it was more work for them.
     
  6. audi-evo

    audi-evo Active Member

    Like leechy tiling aint my trade but i see lots of them work when i am at jobs and tiling is 1st and fittings over the top.
    It must be more work fitting stuff then tiling round.
    Mind you your builders pipework doesn't sound the best either zero for two!
    I think if it is a new house i would have a good cry rip it out and start again, maybe only pay a deposit and balance on completion.
    Make sure you tell the tiler before he starts the standards you require and make it clear you will only pay for a pro finish.
    As for your other money, i think you have had it.
     
  7. sarad

    sarad New Member

    Thank-you for your advice. I fear it is spot on. I'm so glad now I didn't go for mega expensive tiles !
     
  8. jasonb

    jasonb New Member

    All of the shower enclosures that I have fitted over the years require masticing on the outside only, this is due to water running inside the two adjustable frame sections and needing to run out the bottom of the frame and back into the tray.

    At the very least the frame needs to come out, tiling carried on beyond the frame and refit the frame. Just one thing was the opening after tiling going to be within the adjustment range of the enclosure, have seen it several times where thick tiles can make the opening too small!!

    But as the tiles are in a bad way and water has now leaked into the plasterboard (I assume) this will have deteriorated so the whole lot needs to come out, boarding replaces preferably with a tilebacker board, a tanking system applied, retile and grout.

    Jason
     
  9. sarad

    sarad New Member

    I don't think that the space was too small - the tiles are standard white tiles and the enclosure was supplied by the bathroom company that supplied all the bathroom furniture. I would have thought that is this was the problem that the tilers would have told us this. I honestly think that these guys think this is the way to do it so they have likely done it in numerous other houses as well.

    Will try phoning them today to try for a refund although I know it is highly unlikely. I don't want them to come and correct it themselves as I'm not convinced it would be any better in the end. If I do get hold of them, I'm going to show them this thread.

    Thanks again.
     
  10. sarad

    sarad New Member

    My husband has just spoke to tilers and they are refusing to believe there is anything wrong with what they have done. He says he can show us numerous text books that say to tile up to the shower. Anyway, after half an hour of going round in circles, my husband lost his temper as they weren't offering to help in anyway.

    However, they do have a Federation of Master Builders logo on their website so we are contacting them to see if they are actually members or not.

    The saga continues ...
     
  11. nick a

    nick a New Member

    A good deal of logos and affiliations to organisations don't mean much. You don't have to prove your ability in any way, just pay an affiliation fee.
    Re. your problem, I've never seen a screen fitted and then tiled around. Fail to see any advantage at all in cutting round it.
    Did they explain it to you beforehand or did you trust them to get on with it? Also, did you get any other quotes or advice?
     
  12. My husband has just spoke to tilers and they are
    refusing to believe there is anything wrong with what
    they have done. He says he can show us numerous text
    books that say to tile up to the shower. Anyway,
    after half an hour of going round in circles, my
    husband lost his temper as they weren't offering to
    help in anyway.

    However, they do have a Federation of Master
    Builders logo on their website so we are contacting
    them to see if they are actually members or not.

    The saga continues ...

    There are no circumstances under which it is correct to fit the shower door before tiling. The manufacturer of the shower doors will state that and it will be clearly stated in the fitting instructions included with the doors.

    Get your facts straight, write a letter to them explaining the extend of the problems, give them a reasonable period to respond to this (and state this period in the letter) - say 14 days.

    If they make no attempt to rectify or refund, then issue via the small claims court.

    If this doesn't help, make it clear you will provide details of the transaction to trading standards, the inland revenue and Customs & Excise.
     
  13. sarad

    sarad New Member

    Thank-you for that advice. Unfortunately the transaction was paid in cash and I have no receipt or evidence. I presume this will severely hamper any claim we would try and make - would you agree with this or should we still try and go down this avenue ?

    Re membership of membership of master builders : Apparently were members up to the start of last year although they are still displaying the logo on their website. They have now been alerted to this and will threaten legal action if it is not removed. It doesn't help us though.

    We feel like fools as we didn't get a written quote or receipt and trusted the word of mouth recommendation that we had been given. We have learnt a harsh lesson.
     
  14. 'When I first saw you
    Something stirred within me
    You were standing sutry in the rain
    If I could've held you
    I would've held you
    Rip it up and start again

    Rip it up and start again
    I said rip it up and start again
    I said rip it up and rip it up and rip it up and rip it up and rip it up and start again.....'
     
  15. sarad

    sarad New Member

    I thought Valentines Day had come early for me there !

    That's what we're going to do. All very frustrating though - I need a shower !!
     
  16. As far as I'm aware it doesn't matter how you paid them, you still paid them, although the cash makes it more difficult to prove.

    It's a shame as recommendations are the best way to get any trades in.
     
  17. audi-evo

    audi-evo Active Member

    how much was the job?
     
  18. sarad

    sarad New Member

    £450 + materials - I can't remember how many square meters but it was kitchen, utility room and two bathrooms. Not floor to ceiling or anything. In kitchen it was between work surface and cupboards and round sink area if you know what I mean. Round wash hand basin, bath and shower in one bathroom and round wash hand basin and shower in the en-suite.
     
  19. bathstyle

    bathstyle Active Member

    How many days and how many men were on site each day?
     
  20. sarad

    sarad New Member

    2 men a total of 12 1/2 hours spread of 2 days
     

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