Ideal Logic combi 35 loosing pressure on gauge ( isolated problem to Boiler)

Discussion in 'Plumbers' Talk' started by bond007, Jul 11, 2015.

  1. bond007

    bond007 Well-Known Member

    Guys, on my Ideal Logic combi 35 - its loosing pressure on gauge.
    The boiler drops about 0.3 pressure on the gaughe every 24 hours.

    I bleeded all the rads and checked for any leaks around the rads piping or ceiling, no fault found.

    So what i then did was, turn off the return and flow from the boiler and turned boiler off over night.
    In the morning, the pressure had still dropped. So i have been told by Ideal tech support the fault has been isolated to the boiler.

    So what am wanting to know is, what methodical steps do i take next to narrow down which part is causing the boiler to drop pressure (diverter valve, circulating pump, CH expansion vessel )

    Thanks in adavance

    installation manual for the boiler:
    http://idealboilers.com/installer/w...2/2014/01/Logic-Combi-Installation-Manual.pdf
     
  2. bond007

    bond007 Well-Known Member

    Anyone yet??
     
  3. joinerjohn1

    joinerjohn1 Screwfix Select

    Probably the PRV (pressure relief valve) Have a look outside at the outlet of the PRV and see if there's any sign that water's been dripping recently.
     
  4. bond007

    bond007 Well-Known Member


    Hi, should have mentioned that I have already been checking that for the past few days and seen no visable signs of water dripping or even sweating..

    Next step...?
     
  5. Glad its Friday

    Glad its Friday Active Member

    If it is not the prv, then most likely cause is going to be the heat exchanger unfortunately. It will have a small crack and is leaking though the condensate pipework.

    Easy enough to check, turn the boiler off completely, disconnect the condensate pipework somewhere and see how much water you collect overnight.

    Do you have a manufacturers warranty? The Logic + have 5 or 7 years, ordinary Logics 2 years normally; however, Ideal know about this problem so if the boiler has been properly registered with them and the service book is all filled in, then it is definitely worth a call to see if they will come and do it for you without charging.

    I rate these boilers, although we have had a few with this problem (all 30kw model) but Ideal have come and swapped out the h/x without a problem.

    Bad luck but hope you can get it fixed ok...........
     
  6. bond007

    bond007 Well-Known Member

    How much water should come out of the condensate paperwork to see if that is the problem or not?

    How much is that part anyway.. Can it be fitted diy?
     
  7. Dave does Gas

    Dave does Gas Screwfix Select

    If its the heat exchanger its going to be four to five hundred quid and not not a DIY job its a full strip down to replace it and re commission.
     
  8. How much water should be coming out that condensate pipe? When the boiler isn't running, then none.

    (Except the boiler might release a last 'slug' of condensate even after it's chust shut off for the night.)

    A leaking main exchanger will lose that water to somewhere, and if your boiler is a condensing type, then it'll be out that pipe. (Is it a condensing type? If so, where does that 2mm plastic pipe go to?)
     
  9. And I'd strongly suggest it is not a DIY job as you are working directly with the combustion chamber. You don't want to get that bit wrong. Probably fair to say it's the biggest repair job on a combi boiler?

    How old is your boiler? If it isn't under the official warranty, you can still make a valid claim under the SoG Act. I reckon all exchangers should last - what? - at least 6 years or more? And you will almost certainly win your case if you could be bothered tackling it (and it ain't difficult to do.)


    (Or, since the boiler is still usable, you could take out a service warranty, ideally with Ideal themselves, hold out for as long as you can and then make a claim... If you can live with the serious criminal nature of that exercise... :rolleyes:)
     
  10. bond007

    bond007 Well-Known Member

    Do I just turn the boiler off from the mains or even turn off the return and flow pipe?

    Also after I remove the condensate pipe, do I leave the boiler turned off or do I need to turn or back off with the pipe still detached?

    I will consider my options once I can confirm it is the heat exchanger which is definitely at fault.


    Thanks
     
  11. Glad its Friday

    Glad its Friday Active Member

    Yes, turn the boiler off at the mains electricity, you don't want it coming on while you are checking the condensate discharge.

    Volume to expect with a 0.3bar drop in 24 hours. Not really sure, it will depend on the size of your system, but 0.5 to 1 pint possibly. But as DA says, you shouldn't get any. You are just trying to find out where you are loosing pressure so connect up the condensate pipe again before you turn the boiler back on. With the boiler off, you shouldn't get any condensate.

    As DDG says, not a diy job, you've got to mess about with the gas as well as the flue connections and confirm the flue gas readings at the end of the job. Don't know how much the h/x is but if you've got to pay for the part and labour it must be getting close to considering a complete new boiler.

    Sentinel leak sealer might give you a temporary fix but not before you've spoken with Ideal first. Do you have a warranty?
     
  12. bond007

    bond007 Well-Known Member


    The condensate pipe leads outside to the drain.
    So let me get this right, turning the boiler off from mains and disconnecting the condensate pipe and putting a jug under it.. Some water should come out if heat exchanger is leaking?... If it's not leaking then no water should pass through when boiler off?
     

    Attached Files:

  13. Glad its Friday

    Glad its Friday Active Member

    That's correct.
    If you do get some, it is slightly acidic so don't go drinking it :eek:
    Warranty????
     
  14. That's about it.

    Switch the boiler off so it doesn't run. No need that I can see to turn off the mains inlet to it. Then tie a bag around the outlet of the condensation pipe outside where it points into the drain outside.

    That's it.

    Make sure the boiler is first turned up to around 1.2 bar pressure as normal.

    'Condensate' is produced from the combustion gases. So no combustion should equal no liquid. The only other source of liquid coming out that pipe is from rain getting in the flue (it shouldn't...) or a leak from within the sealed combustion chamber. Which means a leaking main exchanger.

    Pretty much fool-proof test result, I believe.
     
  15. bond007

    bond007 Well-Known Member

    Our of warranty unfortunately by few months, but do have home emergency cover insurance home insurance.. Was just doing all fault diagnosis before calling them out.
     
  16. bond007

    bond007 Well-Known Member

    So I will disconnect the condensate pipe from where I uploaded the picture?

    Put a jug under there and tie a bag on the other end outlet leading to the drain outside?
     
  17. Don't disconnect that pipe unless you really have to - one more thing to go wrong.

    If you have access to the pipe end outside, that's all you need.

    If you have insurance that'll cover the repair, that's cool. But will it have an excess? Will it make your premiums go up?

    How old is this boiler? Have you heard of the SoG Act? It's there for a reason. It's there to ensure manufacturers make goods that last a reasonable length of time. It works. I know - I made Apple pay for an 'out of warranty' iPad with a swollen battery. It's fair. You paid good money.
     
  18. bond007

    bond007 Well-Known Member

    Why the need to tie a bag around the outside condensate outlet when it's going to be disconnected from under the boiler, so whatever leaks will go in the jug I have placed right?...
     
  19. bond007

    bond007 Well-Known Member

    Ye they give boiler 5 year warranty and mines gone over by few months.. Ye will speak to them tomorrow and highlight the common issue and should be more durable and lasting.

    Also I get it now, jus turn the boiler off and connect bag at the end of the outside outlet and no disconnect any pipes from under the boiler... Bravo..
     
  20. THUD THUD THUD (my head, my desk)

    Do you have access to the condensate pipe end outside? If so, tie a bag loosely around it so that no rain can slip in, but the bag will collect any liquid wot comes from the pipe.

    That's it.

    If you would rather disconnect the pipe from under the boiler, that's fine instead. But let's hope you redo it without any future leaks.
     

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