Install Power Sockets In Workshop - Good Practice

Discussion in 'Electricians' Talk' started by SomeOfTheGear, Oct 1, 2021.

  1. bright_Spark

    bright_Spark Screwfix Select

    For an Armoured cable that I can see and test it is clear of any faults, yes I would. The cable should not be back filled until it has been inspected. The customer has laid a cable in a trench is no different to me or anyone else simply rolling it out into a trench. And saves me digging the trench and supplying the cable. We do many 3d party EIC this way.
     
    Last edited: Oct 1, 2021
  2. bright_Spark

    bright_Spark Screwfix Select

    Just re read your post, if the cable was concealed then certainly not, but if the cable was available for viewing and it was at the correct depth and then backfilled with bottom layer of sharp sand then soil on top with a yellow marker tape etc, then yes no problem, the key factor here is concealment.
     
  3. SomeOfTheGear

    SomeOfTheGear New Member

    Details noted about trench requirements. What depth is need please?
     
  4. The Happy Builder

    The Happy Builder Screwfix Select

    Yes, because there’s a limitation printed on the EICR saying you have only inspected things which are visible.
     
  5. bright_Spark

    bright_Spark Screwfix Select

    600mm should be ok in most situations with a layer of sharp sand on the bottom of the trench of a couple of inches, then best practice is to cove the cable with roof tiles and sharp sand again, for another few inches, then backfill with the soil and 150mm from the surface put a yellow warning marker tape over the top and then carry on with your back fill. The main thing is if you are doing this yourself and if you are getting a spark in to connect each end up (reccommended) he will need to see the depth of trench and the cable laid on a bed of sharp sand. Once he is satisfied you can then start the backfill.
     
    SomeOfTheGear likes this.
  6. bright_Spark

    bright_Spark Screwfix Select

    Yes on an EICR, the requirement is still the same for an EIC which is what this chap will need. Although the caviat is to these rules is that he could do it all himself and not get an EIC but get an EICR done afterwardswhich will test the installation and deem it either satisfactory or not. It's all a bit silly with the rules and regs from the point of view nobody actually polices all of this and so half the time when you view properties for the first time for an EICR you never seem to see one. The law is a bit lacking and vague in our country in this respect.
     
  7. The Happy Builder

    The Happy Builder Screwfix Select

    It’s Scotland, they play by different rules and I don’t know what they are.
     
  8. Coloumb

    Coloumb Screwfix Select

    You can't issue an EICR for notifiable work. I said EIC.
     
  9. Coloumb

    Coloumb Screwfix Select

    There is no such "limitation" printed on the EIC. Why do you think there is?
     
  10. bright_Spark

    bright_Spark Screwfix Select

    For a 3rd party EIC, you have to physically see the cables on a first fix and dead test the installation in order to issue the EIC on the second fix, there is no written limitation as such, it is a requirement.
     
  11. Coloumb

    Coloumb Screwfix Select

    Part P is pretty clear on this. Only a registered spark can issue an EIC or MWC for their own work and have the work notified to BC. Technically if the work done isn't by him, such as allowing a DIY'er to run in the SWA, them he is "cheating" the system. I would think who ever he is registered with would take a pretty dim view on this if they knew it was going on.

    Unfortunately because Part P isn't policed properly this is how the system has evolved. And no I don't care if you work this or not, it's your trip.

    Only BC themselves can accept a EICR in liew of a EIC or MWC in order to issue notification so as to allow non-registered sparx (ie DIY'ers) to do electrical work.
     
    Last edited: Oct 1, 2021
  12. Coloumb

    Coloumb Screwfix Select

    If you are using a multi-signature EIC then ALL parties still need to be registered.
     
  13. Tony Goddard

    Tony Goddard Screwfix Select

    I think looking at what you have I would be tempted to rip it all out and start afresh, you may be able to re-use some of the fittings, but nothing there is very expensive.

    Decide on what your requirements are in terms of power and what you need in the workshop and find a local spark who will work with you, so you do the donkey work of trench digging, putting up conduits and back boxes and he does the stuff he has to do himself to legitimately sign it off (as alluded to by the previous threads).

    As Coloumb says, part P has never been policed, there are DIY bodges (and professional ones!!) all over the show, and whilst some solicitors seem to want every bit of paper under the sun, others seem completely un fussed.

    BTW if anyone knows how Scotland rolls on electrickery I'd like to know, being down here on the south coast in a local village for local people where we don't get out much (all those loose animals in the forest hem us in) it's a long way away, and I'm never likely to work there. I know how things operate in Wales, mainly through MGW's postings but not north of the border, or for that matter NI
     
  14. bright_Spark

    bright_Spark Screwfix Select

    Sorry buddy but you are wrong there, you need to have approval for this and carry professional indemnity insurance of 2 million, it is a seperate part of the scheme to apply for third party inspections. On a side note to this, I find the whole part P and the whole aspect of allowing anyone to call themselves and work as a spark with something as ridiculous as a label "domestic installer" equally crazy. I work to a code of practice and know my job. I do not agree with these silly money making self certification schemes but unfortunately have to work with it in order to undertake certain works. I used tpo respect the NICEIC years ago, once the self certification came out and domestic installer routes came into play, my respect went out of the window.
     
  15. Tony Goddard

    Tony Goddard Screwfix Select

    Got to agree Bright, the Domestic installer thing is a bit bizarre, I lost respect for the NIC when they did all this dressing up as a charity with the Electrical Safety Council and Electrical Safety First stuff, last time I looked on companies house the original National Inspection Council for Electrical Installation Contractors had been dissolved, so in effect it's not the same organisation that it once was, just kept the initials to keep the logo - whoever designed that was worth the money!
     
    bright_Spark likes this.
  16. bright_Spark

    bright_Spark Screwfix Select

    Spot on mate.
     
  17. Coloumb

    Coloumb Screwfix Select

    Your not reading my post properly.

    If you are a registered spark the law prevents you from certifying anyone else's work but your own, ergo if you let someone else run a cable in for you and sign an EIC or MWC you are passing this work as your own when it is not. This is not legal as the law, ie Part P, does not allow for this.

    My point here is that your view about "signing off someone else's work as your own" being ok is not correct.

    This has nothing to do with third party certification.

    I agree that Part P is a load of shonk that is blatantly ignored pretty much 100% of the time but there you. The LAW requires you to be registered to practice as a spark. It is what it is.


    However I DO NOT care if you want to work this way, it's entirely up to you, but if who ever you are registered with found out then I would expect them to be pretty upset about it.
     
  18. bright_Spark

    bright_Spark Screwfix Select

    I understand what you are saying, but unfortunately we probably share the same concerns, it is down to your scheme operator to allow you to do 3rd party inspections. Minimum requirement is NVQ level 3, test and inspection ie 2394/2395 gold card holder etc. I will give a link to this info so you can see it, it is actually a thing. Your scheme provider can take this privelage away if they deem you to be not competent.
     
  19. Tony Goddard

    Tony Goddard Screwfix Select

    When I was a kid of helping my uncle (who was a spark, now retired) I used to have the task of nailing his little name plates on the chipboard the CU was mounted on, I used to look at the NICEIC logo on there and aspire to having it after my name, sadly that gloss has long gone!
     
  20. bright_Spark

    bright_Spark Screwfix Select

    Found it, chrome-extension://efaidnbmnnnibpcajpcglclefindmkaj/viewer.html?pdfurl=https%3A%2F%2Fassets.publishing.service.gov.uk%2Fgovernment%2Fuploads%2Fsystem%2Fuploads%2Fattachment_data%2Ffile%2F294483%2F3rd_Party_Cert_Scheme_MTC.pdf&clen=183734&chunk=true
    You have to read it right through and you can clearly see it is perfectly ok to do 3rd party EIC
     

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