IPX4 Fused Spur

Discussion in 'Electricians' Talk' started by Mr H, Jan 9, 2019.

  1. Mr H

    Mr H New Member

    Can anyone recommend an IPX4 rated fused spur for a towel rail within 600 of a bath and shower? I know I need one, but can't find one online for under £50

    Thanks
     
  2. Coloumb

    Coloumb Well-Known Member

    You are not allowed a LV accessory in zone 2.
     
  3. peter palmer

    peter palmer Well-Known Member

    Never seen a normal spur that is IPX4 rated apart from weatherproof outdoor ones, does such a thing exist?

    Whenever I've wired an element for a towel rail I've always put the spur outside the bathroom. Also are you sure you can put a spur, weatherproof or not inside zone 2? the regs state a 230V switch can't go inside the zone, it doesn't make any dispensations for IPX4 ones.
     
  4. peter palmer

    peter palmer Well-Known Member

    There is a part in the regs that states "Switches or controls in fixed current-using equipment suitable for use in the zone" although I've taken that to mean something that would be attached to the towel rail like a thermostat or timer, not a stand alone spur.

    I did get the above info from the NIC bathroom guide though and not the actual regs.
     
  5. Coloumb

    Coloumb Well-Known Member

    My interpretation is the towel rail can be in zone 2 providing it's suitable but not the FCU even if it is IP rated. I've always kept FCU outside the b/r and fed via a blanking box. LV FCU and switches ok if outside zone 2.
     
  6. Coloumb

    Coloumb Well-Known Member

    OSG.

    Fixed permanently connected equipment allowed. General rules apply.

    Only switches and sockets of SELV circuits allowed, the source being outside the zones, and shaver supply units complying with BS EN 61558-2-5 if fixed where direct spray is unlikely.

    Nothing about FCU so presume they are not allowed...

    Maybe the regs say different, would need to check.
     
  7. Mr H

    Mr H New Member

    Thanks,

    I think I'll just relocate the fused spur to outside the bathroom and have a flex plate in Zone 2 instead. A bit more faf, but on the right side of the Regs
     
    seneca likes this.
  8. spinlondon

    spinlondon Well-Known Member

    As far as I’m aware, you can have an FCU in the zones, it’s a SFCU that you can’t have.
     
  9. Coloumb

    Coloumb Well-Known Member

    Only switches and sockets of SELV circuits allowed, the source being outside the zones, and shaver supply units complying with BS EN 61558-2-5 if fixed where direct spray is unlikely.

    Why do you think otherwise?
     
  10. spinlondon

    spinlondon Well-Known Member

    I don’t think otherwise.
    An FCU is neither a switch or a socket.
     
  11. peter palmer

    peter palmer Well-Known Member

    Neither is a junction box but you wouldn't be able to screw one of them to the wall in zone 2 without breaking a reg.

    Surely it would need to be IPX4 ASA minimum.

    The regs list the things you can put in a bathroom with conditions, not the things you can't, if it did it would have to list every single electrical items in the history of electics.
     
  12. Coloumb

    Coloumb Well-Known Member

    Your not reading it properly. It says ONLY. This means only ELV and nothing else.

    It even says the source being outside the zones, so I presume this to mean if you can't fit the source for the ELV in zone 2 you can't fit a FCU full stop.
     
  13. spinlondon

    spinlondon Well-Known Member

    No, it’s you who isn’t reading it properly.

    “switchgear, accessories incorporating switches or socket-outlets shall not be installed with the exception of: (i) switches and socket-outlets of SELV circuits, the safety source being installed outside zones 0, 1 and 2,”

    Switchgear: something with a switch.
    Accessories incorporating switches: an accessory with a switch.

    It’s all about the switch.
     
  14. peter palmer

    peter palmer Well-Known Member

    The first requirement of zone 2 is everything has to be IPX4, is an unswitched spur IPX4?

    By you reckoning you could wire an iron to a spur so you could use it whilst in the bath because the regs don't explicitly say you cant wire an iron in a bathroom.
     
  15. spinlondon

    spinlondon Well-Known Member

  16. Coloumb

    Coloumb Well-Known Member

    A FCU doesn't need a switch in it to be a switch. You take the fuse out, it switches off what ever it supplies. From BS7671...

    Switchgear. An assembly of main and auxiliary switching equipment for operation, regulation, protection (ie a fuse) or other control of an electrical installation.

    switchgear (ie a FCU), accessories incorporating switches or socket-outlets shall not be installed with the exception of: (i) switches and socket-outlets of SELV circuits, the safety source being installed outside zones 0, 1 and 2,

    Also look at the table 8.1 OSG. It clearly list the requirements as Switchgear and accessories in the last column. That means CU's FCU, sockets, light switches in fact the lot, ie No LV full stop.

    The whole reasoning behind this is your not meant to be able to interfere with anything LV electrical within arms reach of being in the bath or shower. How could you even begin to argue that putting a FCU in zone 2 is even slightly sensible and that bs7671 condones this?
     
  17. spinlondon

    spinlondon Well-Known Member

    From the definitions in BS7671:
    Switchgear. An assembly of main and auxiliary switching equipment for operation, regulation, protection or other control of an electrical installation.”
    An FCU is not switchgear.
     
  18. JP.

    JP. Screwfix Select

    It could loosely be construed as being a switch tbqh. If you pull the carrier then it disengages output to whatever it is feeding..thus pull the carrier out = off, and push the carrier back in = on.
     
    Coloumb likes this.
  19. spinlondon

    spinlondon Well-Known Member

    What’s the difference between a Switched Fused Connection Unit (SFCU) and a Fused Connection Unit (FCU)?
     
  20. Coloumb

    Coloumb Well-Known Member

    By your reckoning it would be acceptable to install a re-wire able or cartridge based CU in zone 2, as it's not "switch gear".
     

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