Is this a scam?

Discussion in 'Electricians' Talk' started by TallPaul, Jun 22, 2010.

  1. TallPaul

    TallPaul New Member

  2. solarsparks

    solarsparks Member

    "..Save up to 10%". Up to includes zero.

    Vphase, is that the thing that's bigger than the consumer unit and only saves money on the circuits that use least juice?

    I give em six months.
  3. TallPaul

    TallPaul New Member

    I can see what your saying. vPhase is for constantly used, lower power circuits. Will supply up to 1.8Kw continuously and 4Kw for a short burst. I know that sounds lika scam as well but I can see how it works.
    These PF correction units have gota be a rip off. The guy in the shop said they'd been on Dragon's Den. Enough said?
  4. unphased

    unphased Screwfix Select

    No it's not a scam. At best a flawed piece of kit. It's not really worthwhile in a domestic installation as there are too many resistive loads and it won't work on those (showers, kettles, washing machines, heaters etc etc) but it does actually save energy on lighting circuits. Since the lighting lamps are being developed as energy saving devices in themselves there is no future for vPhase.
  5. Stoday

    Stoday New Member

    Domestic supplies only pay for kWh, not for kVArh, so bad power factor won't make any difference to the amount of electricity you pay for.

    Bad PF will increase the losses in your wiring. But those losses are miniscule compared with the savings the manufacturer reckons it will save.

    So it's a SCAM
  6. Risteard

    Risteard Screwfix Select

    It's not power factor correction. It reduces supply voltage. (Wouldn't make compliance with voltage drop requirements easy!)

    When you say it reduces the cost of lighting, let's not forget that it also makes lamps significantly dimmer.
  7. unphased

    unphased Screwfix Select

    This is a clear example of misleading advice. Risteard you are absolutely correct that it is a voltage reduction device not a power corrective device. Then you go on to say it makes lights significantly dimmer. That is NOT correct at all. The lighting is not affected by voltage reduction as they have researched it and proven there is no such significant dimming at all. The company are fully aware of the limitations of the device and as usual people who have not been to aVphase seminar or bothered to read the facts are giving totally false reviews. Stoday!
  8. unphased

    unphased Screwfix Select

    That is why highly resistive loads, such as say a heater of 3kW won't produce a cost saving by reducing the voltage. V=IR, so lower the voltage, increase the current because resistance is constant. Net result zero. VPhase are not crooks, as I said the device is flawed and has limited use in a domestic environment.
  9. Risteard

    Risteard Screwfix Select

    Incandescent lamps WILL be dimmer.

    Fluorescents on electronic ballasts won't be, but will consume the same amount of power anyway.
  10. unphased

    unphased Screwfix Select

    Risteard NO THEY WON'T. I saw the demonstration and there was NO DISCERNABLE DIFFERENCE. It is velar you have not seen the VPhase in operation so I am sorry to have to point out yor misleading comments to other readers. They reduce the voltage down to limits which have been checked and verified.
  11. Risteard

    Risteard Screwfix Select

    I'm afraid I can't agree with you (and would be highly sceptical about their own demonstration), but perhaps you can address the issue of voltage drop?
  12. seemless

    seemless New Member

    We all know supply voltage varies from house to house.

    If we have a incandescent load of 60W at 246v how much dimmer, if any, would it be at 226v?

    To say it would or wouldn't be dimmer when talking about a watt or two is the $64k dollar question.
  13. unphased

    unphased Screwfix Select

    I don't intend to address the "issue" of voltage drop. VPhase are the people to ask. I was correcting you on the misinformation that incandescent lighting will be dimmer with lower voltage. It will dim if voltage is reduced excessively and this was demonstrated in the seminar. They have nothing to hide so be as sceptical as you like. I am sure they will be happy to discuss this if you ask them. It is certainly not a scam, I will repeat myself, it is FLAWED for its intended use. I am not an advocate of theirs either. I just don't like reading misinformation spouted on forums.
  14. oliver1234

    oliver1234 New Member

    Unphased...I don't know anything about this device but I can tell you with absolue certainty that if you reduce the voltage going into a resistive load the current will fall as well.
  15. unphased

    unphased Screwfix Select

    The unit regulates voltage to 220V. Ifa load exceeding 4.5kW is detected by the unit it goes in to by-pass mode which effectively allows normal voltage to operate. The unit should not be connected to single loads exceeding 13A, showers, cookers or heaters. Its just that these types of load will not work efficiently at the lower voltages thats why it can't be conneted to them.
  16. losinit

    losinit New Member

    At a demo of v phase at Harrogate show,the rep showed me a cu dual rcd board with 50A mcb feeding v phase trany & mcb,s for water htrs,showers,space heaters etc on the same bus bar.The other rcd/busbar was fed from the secondary of the v phase & fed lights,sockets & anything else without a thermostat.Something wrong there,sockets & lights on 1 rcd?
  17. pcelectrics

    pcelectrics New Member

    My limited understanding is that the VPhase unit will save leccy on lighting and anything else that uses a motor. They say that up to 17% can be saved on running fridges and freezers. Did you see anything at this 'seminar' to support this?

    I have a local shop owner with 10 fridges and freezers, who would love to make this saving. Is this worth looking into further do you think?
  18. losinit

    losinit New Member

    Always beware of the words"up to".Also they said the V Phase was guaranteed for 5 years,so would you make a saving if it blew up out of warranty?
  19. Stoday

    Stoday New Member

    Unphased mush have been smoking the funny stuff. The original post and link referred to the Ecotek Energy Wizard, which has nothing to do with the Vphase other than that the former was mentioned in a seminar. The Energy Wizard says words to the effect that it corrects power factor, that's all. Indeed, as it is only a device that plugs into an ordinary socket it could not reduce the voltage without overheating.

    Unphased is talking about a different device altogether, effectively a constant voltage transformer with an output of 220V. Whether that saves money or not is moot. For heating or cooling it won't, because although reduced voltage will reduce the power, the amount of heat or cool depends on the total energy. Lower power means it has to operate for longer.

    This leaves unphased's notion that reduced voltage does not make filiament lights dimmer. I wonder what causes the flickering we've all seen when, for example, motors start? Of course you can save energy on lighting circuits by dropping the voltage but the lights are somewhat dimmer. You can get the same effect by reducing the power of the lamps.

    V=IR, so lower the voltage, increase the current because resistance is constant.

    Erm — Your maths nees a bit of a brush-up here UP! If R is constant and V falls, so must I.

    For a filiament lamp, R is not constant and will fall as V falls, so I does not fall in proportion to V. Nevertheless, it does fall to a lesser extent otherwise UP will have broken the 2nd law of thermodynamics.
  20. unphased

    unphased Screwfix Select

    :). My apologies, I didn't look at the link so assumed wrongly that the device was the VPhase unit, not the Ecotek.

    Indeed my maths was shaky, I wasn't thinking straight. Of course if V is reduces then I must also reduce (directly proportional). The reduction in voltage will increase the time needed for the heating appliances to heat the room is correct.

    Lastly, it is not my notion that reduced voltage doesn't dim lights. Of course it does. What I am pointing out is that at 220V there is no discernable dimming. That is VPhases demo and I recall the light did not dim noticeably until voltage was down around the 210V point. Hope this is now clear.

    Here is an extract from lates NAPIT newsletter:
    VPhase Social Housing Trials Success

    Further to the previous announcement on 13 January 2010, VPhase plc (AIM:VPHA), a leading provider of energy-saving products for residential and commercial properties, has completed its social housing trial with Great Places Housing Group after installing a number of VPhase smart voltage management products in tenants' homes.

    The data from these trials has been independently analysed and demonstrated average energy savings over the trial period of 8.7%.

    The social housing market in England includes up to 4 million homes and is an important target sector for VPhase. Social housing providers can benefit further as they strive to meet stringent carbon reduction targets, as the annualised CO2 savings of up 180kg a year, equivalent to driving over 1000km in an average car, offered by the VPhase can make valuable, consistent contributions towards these targets.


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