Is this the correct way to wire my additional socket?

Discussion in 'Electricians' Talk' started by Stephen Gallagher, Jul 12, 2018.

  1. Stephen Gallagher

    Stephen Gallagher New Member

    Hi,

    I'm looking to add an extra 13A socket which will be used to power a projector.

    I currently have: One double 13A socket on the ring which has previously been spurred off to a fuse, which in turn goes to one single 13A socket. At a guess I think the previous owner has done this to power an electric fire - which has long gone.

    I need to retain all of the existing sockets (in fact I may switch the single to a double), and add one additional socket which will go in the ceiling void between down/up stairs. I'll then plug my ceiling mounted projector into it.

    I was thinking to extend the initial 2-Gang 13A socket to a 3-Gang to comprise of one double outlet and one blank, in which I'll crimp my new leg to maintain the ring.

    Here's a sketch to show the would-be new wiring. Am I on the right track? Or, can anyone suggest an alternative way?

    [​IMG]
     
  2. Dr Bodgit

    Dr Bodgit Well-Known Member

    Its hard to follow that wiring, what does "crimp" mean on the double/triple socket?

    You can have any number of sockets after the 13A FCU but it looks like you are doing something odd with the way its wired up, does each line represent a T&E cable?
     
  3. KIAB

    KIAB Well-Known Member

    Confused.:confused:
     
  4. Dr Bodgit

    Dr Bodgit Well-Known Member

    - Replace the double socket on the ring final with a triple if you want
    - Keep the FCU connected to the other single socket which is replaced with a double.
    - Connect the ceiling double socket off this double socket that's fed off the FCU. So you have [triple socket = FCU = existing single/double socket = new double socket]
     
  5. Stephen Gallagher

    Stephen Gallagher New Member

    Hi,

    Yes, each of my sketch lines represents a T&E 2.5mm cable.

    As I already have a socket on a fused spur, I believe that I cannot spur again from that socket. If correct in that understanding, I therefore need to find a way to add my additional socket but maintain the ring.

    Here's also a sketch of my existing wiring, and highlight of the new socket I require.

    You'll now see that I intend to swap the single 13A socket for a double.

    In terms of wiring, I'd propose to run a cable up from the existing single to my new socket, then a second T&E cable back down from my new socket and will join (crimp) that to one leg of the ring main at my existing double socket. Thus effectively bringing all sockets into the ring main. I'd propose to house the crimped connected within a blanked off one gang at my new 3-gang box - just to avoid a crimped T&E connection being lost behind the plaster board.

    [​IMG]
     
  6. Stephen Gallagher

    Stephen Gallagher New Member

    If I follow you, wouldnt that mean I'm running 2x sockets from a single spur? And that's not allowed - right?
     
  7. Dr Bodgit

    Dr Bodgit Well-Known Member

    The FCU has a 13amp fuse which means you can practically connect any number of sockets from it, so easiest way is to connect the new ceiling socket from the single socket. The FCU is protecting the T&E cable, current can't exceed as safe level (13 amps). Do NOT connect this to the ring final.

    The rule about only a single socket on a spur is where there's no FCU protection.

    Another way would be to remove the FCU and connect all sockets into the ring final.
     
  8. Stephen Gallagher

    Stephen Gallagher New Member

    Ah - I see. If I were to wire it as per my initial sketch, everything on the ring beyond the FCU would become limited to the capacity of the 13A fuse.

    So, going back to the original sketch. If I replace the FCU with a single 13A socket, but otherwise wire it up as per the diagram, would that be ok? Bringing it all into the ring.
     
  9. Dr Bodgit

    Dr Bodgit Well-Known Member

    I think so yes, but no need for any crimps. Every socket has 2 T&E cables, an "in" and "out" so to speak so all are in series within the ring final.
     
  10. Stephen Gallagher

    Stephen Gallagher New Member

    I'll need to crimp when I run my T&E back to the ring main (currently wired to the 1st double socket).

    Where this socket currently has 3x T&E (2x ring, 1x fused spur), I'd be removing one leg of the ring and crimping to that. Leaving all sockets in my diagram with 2x T&E cables (one in, one out).
     
  11. Dr Bodgit

    Dr Bodgit Well-Known Member

    Ah right, if you need to connect two cables together, do NOT crimp them. A terminal connector (aka "chocoloate") block should be used, or use a proper Wago or similar connector.
     
  12. Pollowick

    Pollowick Well-Known Member

    Crimp? You can use Wago connectors - either push fit or the spring loaded 222 or 221 range
     
  13. dobbie

    dobbie Well-Known Member

    Crimping is not a good idea on solid cables, even if you do own a proper ratchet crimping tool.
    Either use correctly rated wago's as dr bodgit and pollowick have said, or good quality 30 amp connector strip which I always prefer to use bakelite.
     
  14. Pollowick

    Pollowick Well-Known Member

    Not the ones that rust though!
     
    dobbie likes this.
  15. Stephen Gallagher

    Stephen Gallagher New Member

  16. Pollowick

    Pollowick Well-Known Member

    Crimps in preference to ChocBlock, however the Wago sprung loaded connectors are excellent and perform well. Much easier to install and remove, are classed as Maintenance Free in a lot of installations, will take high current.

    Get hold of some 221 or 222 connectors and try them out - once tried you will very rarely use ChocBlock again.
     
  17. dobbie

    dobbie Well-Known Member

    Crimps are fine on stranded conductors but not on solid ones,the crimps you link to are also too small and under rated for 2.5.
    There is nothing wrong with good quality connector strip terminated properly,what happened before wago.
     
    Stephen Gallagher likes this.
  18. Stephen Gallagher

    Stephen Gallagher New Member

    Why is that?

    Thanks for pointing that out. If anything I should have purchased the blue https://www.screwfix.com/p/insulated-crimp-ebb-blue-butt-pack-of-100/47402

    I do like the sound of the Wego 222. I'm not looking for a cheap or quick solution. Just trying to better understand, so that I do it correctly.
     
  19. robertpstubbs

    robertpstubbs Member

    The 221 are best because:

    1) They work with a very wide range of cables ie 0.2mm to 4.0mm (eg locator neons upwards);

    2) They are small;

    3) They are easily reusable so also work in testing and temporary situations.
     
  20. Dr Bodgit

    Dr Bodgit Well-Known Member

    For ease of wiring, if it is in fact easier, you could spur off one of the sockets to the ceiling socket as long as all the others are connected in series on the ring final. That way you have a single T&E going up to the ceiling, perhaps from the existing FCU box, may be even with the FCU still there.
     

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