Isolators for kitchen - location?

Discussion in 'Electricians' Talk' started by moppitup, Jan 10, 2020.

  1. moppitup

    moppitup Member

    Hi folks,

    Need a second opinion on location of isolators. Sparky quoting insists that my isolators cannot be in cupboards anymore stating this is not easily accessible.

    The net result will be isolators for two ovens, hob, extractor, under-plinth lighting, and dishwasher filling up the small piece of wall between wall units and worktop. It's going to look more like an aircraft flight deck than a kitchen and SWMBO not impressed. I'm inclined to agree...

    What flexibility is there around interpretation to allow hiding some of these or is there a nifty alternative solution that'll satisfy both parties?

    Any thoughts much appreciated

    Ta

    M
     
  2. terrymac

    terrymac Screwfix Select

    There is no regulation that requires local isolators for any appliances in your kitchen.
     
  3. spinlondon

    spinlondon Screwfix Select

    Change electricians.
     
  4. rk_diy

    rk_diy Member

  5. seneca

    seneca Screwfix Select

    Agreed, but if there are isolators, being installed in an adjacent cupboard is perfectly acceptable.
     
  6. terrymac

    terrymac Screwfix Select

    Yes it is. As dishwashers/ washing machines and some ovens etc have a plug and need a socket ,no need for an isolator.
     
  7. moppitup

    moppitup Member

    None of the items have plugs.

    Ovens both 16A Neff one 3.2kw, other 3.4kw, hob 5-burner 7.4 kw.
     
  8. Sparkielev

    Sparkielev Screwfix Select

    Fit 20amp grid switches in adjacent cupboard, click do a decent range of the grid switches
     
    moppitup likes this.
  9. sparko69

    sparko69 Screwfix Select

    When the electrician says the position you chose is not easily accessible he probably means it's not easily accessible to him and so maybe his quote will change if you insist on putting the isolators in the cupboard which is your choice not his.
    Instead of having multiple switches you could have a grid switch arrangement that will probably impress the missus
     
    moppitup likes this.
  10. Mr Neutron

    Mr Neutron Member

    Respect Senica, but isn't this about accessibility of isolation. We are talking on the whole fairly high current devices that handle water. If **** happens and they start smoking, do you really want to be emptying out an adjacent cupboard to switch off.
    So my opinion would be that at least the washing machine, dish washer and hob should be on an accessible fused spur.
     
  11. spinlondon

    spinlondon Screwfix Select

    If the isolators are intended for safety, then they need to comply with the requirements for safety switching.
    i.e. be red in colour, redily accessible, in a position away from any danger presented by the device they are used for and designed so that device will not be re-energised when the switch is re-set.
     
  12. ElecCEng

    ElecCEng Screwfix Select

    What exactly are the isolators mounted on? Don’t think there’s anything in 18th or Part P that says they can’t be in cupboards but pretty sure there’s something about not mounting accessories/cable into the kitchen fittings, I.e. the cupboards themselves.

    If it’s a washing machine then it sounds like you have at least 600m of wall above it to play with. Two fused switches shouldn’t look too out of place. One for wm one for hob+ovens. Run an appropriate sized cable from isolator to behind the ovens (Neff have a specific zone for installation IIRC). Click do a decent multi outlet which you can then connect all three into.

    Move hood fused switch & extractor up to the walls next to each appliance.

    Under cupboard lights move fused switch to a more “light switcy” location.

    Thoughts?

     
    moppitup likes this.
  13. moppitup

    moppitup Member

    Thanks all for the input. Grid switches look very interesting. Will also investigate click range.

    Fyi wall units are taller than previously and prevent anything fitted above as there is only about 40mm to the ceiling. They also fill the wall from left to right so sides not an option. There is clear space above the dishwasher however..
     
  14. Mancone

    Mancone Member

    Does my fan in the bathroom need an isolating switching?
     
  15. moppitup

    moppitup Member

    One other question..if in cupboards you mean they must be mounted on the rear walls, With a cutout in the rear panel?
     
  16. baldelectrician.com

    baldelectrician.com Well-Known Member

    I try and put isolators in a large walk in cupboard.

    Most houses have a decent size cupboard with the consumer unit in it

    If I do a rewire and the consumer unit is there or adjacent then I put isolator switches on the consumer unit board in a readily accessible place and labelled all detailed on the certificate.
     
  17. moppitup

    moppitup Member

    Really?..So there is no requirement for them to be near the appliances? I assume this can only mean single radial items like a cooker, hob or oven ? Surely this just duplicates the function of the isolator in the consumer panel? What's the point?
     
  18. Bazza

    Bazza Screwfix Select

    As already said, there is no regulation to say that you need them. By extension, therefore, there as no regulation of the positioning of something that you need not have.
    If you have a separate isolator, this disconnects both the line and neutral connections to the appliance. The isolator (MCB) in the consumer unit only isolates the line, the disadvantage of this is that a fault in an appliance can cause an earth leakage device, like an RCD, to trip even though the line is not energised.
     
    Mancone likes this.
  19. peter palmer

    peter palmer Screwfix Select

    Just put any switches or sockets you need for the appliance in the cupboard next to them or above/below them, I've been doing it this way for years and never had any issues what so ever. If it can't go in a cupboard because you have to move things to get to the switch what does that say about a consumer unit, virtually every CU I've ever had to get to I've had to move 300 pairs of smelly old shoes, second hand carpets, broken brushes and shattered pictures of dogs playing snooker.

    Don't fit the grid switches either, you will end up turning the fridge off after you've had a couple of sherbets.
     
  20. lokkie

    lokkie Member

    This is the solution we went for.
    Grid switches for all in the top level of a tall cupboard for FF/DW/WM/MW/Extractor (we did have the oven on here originally too but were informed on this forum it wasn't sufficient so that has now been wired underneath). Hob is on own one in adjacent cupboard to the hob.

    There seemed to be lots of conflicting opinion on whether or not these can be mounted to the rear panel of a cupboard, so in the end we mounted it on the wall and have it coming through the cupboard.

    Still a bit of aligning and finishing to do to make it neater, but it was a huge PITA to get it wired like this and I'm just happy it is all in and working.

    IMG_0668.JPG IMG_0669.JPG
     

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