longboat
Screwfix Select
Top tune, TOP TUNE...?
We should be stereotypically repulsed by it.
You are not in our tribe now, traitor.
[I spit on your Jackboots].
C
chippie244
Guest
I bet HA doesn't give you a like for this
That part right there is one thing I completely agree with our government didn't have the bottle to walk away. The EU knew this and took full advantage.
Yes a hard brexit with no deal would of been disastrous in my opinion but if we had walked away and said we will be will to make a deal which suits both but the EU need to get their heads out the clouds and do a little give and take we would of got a better deal.
In all honesty we shouldn't be in this position but we're here now and the government should do better. I hope people realise that in the next general election both Labour and the Tories are un-electable and a change to the status quo is needed.
A
Allsorts
Guest
You talk as tho' this is a playground argument taking place.
In many ways that is exactly how it has been played out - "go whistle..." - but that doesn't reflect what is actually taking place, as - mostly - these are grown-ups doing the work. All the stupid juvenile rhetoric is for the benefit of the minions, on both sides.
Swagger swagger - yeah, we should of threatened them more! That'll teach them. We'll go to the brink! I bet they'll blink first...
What a load of mindless beee-esss.
What a stupid stupid situation to get yourself in to with your closest partners and allies.
In many ways that is exactly how it has been played out - "go whistle..." - but that doesn't reflect what is actually taking place, as - mostly - these are grown-ups doing the work. All the stupid juvenile rhetoric is for the benefit of the minions, on both sides.
Swagger swagger - yeah, we should of threatened them more! That'll teach them. We'll go to the brink! I bet they'll blink first...
What a load of mindless beee-esss.
What a stupid stupid situation to get yourself in to with your closest partners and allies.
That is exactly what politics is have you seen prime ministers questions its just name calling and d**k measuring (bit like this forum)
The simple fact is if you go to negotiate and are not prepared to walk away and deal with the outcomes then you are going to submit to everything. Surely you would agree?
They are our closest partners but haven't failed to take advantage and kick us while we are down. They have tried to make an example of us and if you look at history it doesn't always go well when someone is used as an example to tell the rest to keep in line.
As I said though we shouldn't be in this position in the first place
The simple fact is if you go to negotiate and are not prepared to walk away and deal with the outcomes then you are going to submit to everything. Surely you would agree?
They are our closest partners but haven't failed to take advantage and kick us while we are down. They have tried to make an example of us and if you look at history it doesn't always go well when someone is used as an example to tell the rest to keep in line.
As I said though we shouldn't be in this position in the first place
C
chippie244
Guest
We asked to leave, we brought it all down on to our own heads.
A
Allsorts
Guest
What's all this silliness, Broon?! "They are our closest partners but haven't failed to take advantage and kick us while we are down."?
The EU - very cunningly - set out their store at the beginning of these negotiations, openly and clearly, telling us what their red lines were and - very deviously & misleadingly - stuck with it throughout as the UK went berserk demanding that they see reason.
I exaggerate a teeny tiny bit, but I fear for the mind that sees this reality any other way.
As Chips says, the UK brought this on themselves, and then tried to carry it through with incompetence, laziness, bluff, bluster, blunder and posturing. How could that have possibly gorn so wrong.
I
Isitreally
Guest
A
Allsorts
Guest
Are we still asking to Leave?
It's a pity the u-s don't youknow...
It's a pity the u-s don't youknow...
I
Isitreally
Guest
How is it silliness?
Am I right in saying that the EU have tried to make an example of us?
Am I right in saying because although may said it often enough that a no deal was better than a bad but wouldn't back it up we had already lost before going to negotiating table?
I know you will not agree with this DA but I hope the next time Scotland get the chance to become independent we don't bottle it cause this union does not speak for us.
Am I right in saying that the EU have tried to make an example of us?
Am I right in saying because although may said it often enough that a no deal was better than a bad but wouldn't back it up we had already lost before going to negotiating table?
I know you will not agree with this DA but I hope the next time Scotland get the chance to become independent we don't bottle it cause this union does not speak for us.
A
Allsorts
Guest
Ach! Aye! We'll gae it alane! Wha's like us!
ALONE! WE ARE BETTER OFF ALOOOOOOOOONE!!!
IT'LL BE GREAT!!!!
'Cos a' oor truibles are caused by 'em.
Y'ejit.
ALONE! WE ARE BETTER OFF ALOOOOOOOOONE!!!
IT'LL BE GREAT!!!!
'Cos a' oor truibles are caused by 'em.
Y'ejit.
C
chippie244
Guest
The EU have followed their rules and have been very clear what they were and we signed up to them.
We asked the EU if we could all the benefits of membership for nothing.
What did you expect?
A
Allsorts
Guest
Well, personally, I was expecting them to roll over and give us exactly what we asked for as soon as they woke up, came to their senses and realised they were dealing with Brits.
A bit like the UK should of done when they realised they were talking to Skots.
A bit like the UK should of done when they realised they were talking to Skots.
See you both seem to think that Im blaming the EU for our poor deal Im not. I am saying they seen a chance to take advantage of us and took it.
I rest the blame solely on our government and mainly the Tories who put is in this position just to remain in power and squash UKIP.
Also DA I don't imagine independence for Scotland to be all sun shine and rainbows but to be in charge of our own fate and have more of a say in what happens to us. In a UK election our vote doesn't really matter and if you try to argue different your delusional a prime example is the Brexit vote where Scotland voted quite largely to stay but are getting dragged out kicking and screaming. Cause when I say Union I think equal parties not I know you voted that way but well England said no.
I rest the blame solely on our government and mainly the Tories who put is in this position just to remain in power and squash UKIP.
Also DA I don't imagine independence for Scotland to be all sun shine and rainbows but to be in charge of our own fate and have more of a say in what happens to us. In a UK election our vote doesn't really matter and if you try to argue different your delusional a prime example is the Brexit vote where Scotland voted quite largely to stay but are getting dragged out kicking and screaming. Cause when I say Union I think equal parties not I know you voted that way but well England said no.
A
Allsorts
Guest
Semantics, Broon - 'blaming' - 'take advantage'.
The u-s on here have - predictably and largely inaccurately - blamed the EU for being truculent over these negotiations, and all they accuse our Government's side of being is either not forceful and demanding enough, or incompetent. They are correct on that second point.
The EU has made its position pretty clear from the off, and have stuck to this. Unsurprisingly, they are in a much stronger position than we are, hence all the belligerent shouting from the likes of Johnson and Davis (where are they now?).
Anyhoo, enough said on that sorry issue.
Fair do's about Scottish independence - you have your reasons, and I have mine. Yours seems to assume that 'having our own say' will make a difference or that it's important in its own right. I simply see unity as being the way to move forward - history has shown us that countries who share more, who trade more freely, who have agreed laws and regulations and rights will succeed better and also remove that pesky risk of 'trouble'. (Just imagine an ex-EU GB making demands on the UAE over the gaoling of the British student. Tell me the power GB would have, desperate as they are not to lose any weapons deals? UK on its own?! Good lord. The UAE would have us completely shafted - do you really think that an ex-EU Britain led by anyone remotely Brexiteery would risk this economic blow for a nano-second?)
Fair point, too, about Scotland being very pro-Remain, but that brings us back to the issue of what 'is' Scotland? It's part of the UK, and the UK made this decision. Can we have independence for Dorset or the Mendips too, please?
Why is 'Scotland' special? Why should it have the right to refuse to accept 'Leave'?
Can Gibraltar also become indy?
Are you sure you are not just using this EU Ref (with the result you did want) to try and justify your other 'want', even tho' most Scots don't agree with your first point, and possibly not with your second either?
The u-s on here have - predictably and largely inaccurately - blamed the EU for being truculent over these negotiations, and all they accuse our Government's side of being is either not forceful and demanding enough, or incompetent. They are correct on that second point.
The EU has made its position pretty clear from the off, and have stuck to this. Unsurprisingly, they are in a much stronger position than we are, hence all the belligerent shouting from the likes of Johnson and Davis (where are they now?).
Anyhoo, enough said on that sorry issue.
Fair do's about Scottish independence - you have your reasons, and I have mine. Yours seems to assume that 'having our own say' will make a difference or that it's important in its own right. I simply see unity as being the way to move forward - history has shown us that countries who share more, who trade more freely, who have agreed laws and regulations and rights will succeed better and also remove that pesky risk of 'trouble'. (Just imagine an ex-EU GB making demands on the UAE over the gaoling of the British student. Tell me the power GB would have, desperate as they are not to lose any weapons deals? UK on its own?! Good lord. The UAE would have us completely shafted - do you really think that an ex-EU Britain led by anyone remotely Brexiteery would risk this economic blow for a nano-second?)
Fair point, too, about Scotland being very pro-Remain, but that brings us back to the issue of what 'is' Scotland? It's part of the UK, and the UK made this decision. Can we have independence for Dorset or the Mendips too, please?
Why is 'Scotland' special? Why should it have the right to refuse to accept 'Leave'?
Can Gibraltar also become indy?
Are you sure you are not just using this EU Ref (with the result you did want) to try and justify your other 'want', even tho' most Scots don't agree with your first point, and possibly not with your second either?
I have no idea where you are getting that I voted leave?
You are also probably right that most will vote against Independence. I will still want it but not much I can do. We were heading for independence the last time but then Cameron and the other 2 offered the Vow (complete bull of course) He also said the staying with the UK was the only way to guarantee being part of the EU (Some one was telling porkies).
Another point is that now is not the time for independence with the whole Brexit fiasco.
I don't think Scotland's special but do I think it deserves an equal share and not to always be put on the back burner or disregarded? Yes I do. I feel the same for Wales and Northern Ireland.
your point of why can't Gibraltar become independent isn't much of a point? As a question why didn't you use the much better comparisons of Wales becoming Independent or Norther Ireland rejoining the rest of Ireland?
J
joinerjohn1
Guest
A return to the original EEC trading agreement is what’s needed. None of this bull **** EU stuff. Just a simple trading agreement, without the freedom of movement, without the “ you vill follow our laws and dictats” Just cut the **** EU laws and recommendations they make in favour of certain countries, at the expense of others.
A
Allsorts
Guest
Oops - sorry, Broon; I'd forgotten you were a Remain voter
(How will you vote on this next time, can I ask?)
By 'special' when I referred to Scotland, of course it is special since that's from whence I hail, but I was just asking why it should be considered special in respect to the EU vote more than any other part of the UK, whoever large or small. And, fair do's - I could have mentioned Wales or NI - I just thought my choice was more amusing.
Hey-ho - let's see how all this mess pans out.