It's all gone quiet.

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joinerjohn1 said:
A return to the original EEC trading agreement is what’s needed. None of this bull **** EU stuff. Just a simple trading agreement, without the freedom of movement, without the “ you vill follow our laws and dictats” Just cut the **** EU laws and recommendations they make in favour of certain countries, at the expense of others.
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JJ still trying to pretend it wasn't about youknowwhat. :rolleyes:
 
btiw2 said:
What do we think of yesterday’s document?
Link: https://assets.publishing.service.g..._level__subject_to_endorsement_by_Leaders.pdf

I like it.

I seem to be on the opposite side to everyone on every issue*, so I guess that means that you all hate it.

* I’m not sure how that works wrt geometry.
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I just scanned through the first few paragraphs, and it says stuff which is of utmost importance to me. Not sure there's any point - or I could be bothered - going through it all as I wouldn't know if I'd miss anything that wasn't there, if you know what I mean.

How writ in stone is this? What happens when the desperate UK insists on making further deals with, say, the UAE which the EU finds 'dodgy' and/or unethical?

What happens when the UK climbs under Trump's armpit and Trump offers us something that he deliberately refuses the EU - because his agenda is always for the USA, and to damage or undermine the EU is something he's made repeatedly clear he wants to do - the EU is too powerful as it stands. Eg: what happens when trump entices the UK towards what appears to be a much better deal than we could have expected, but T is doing it for the ultimate political and economic advantage of the USA over the EU? That is the way he works. I see no reason to think it also won't be the way he treats the UK after Brexit; we'll be a (willing) pawn, especially if the likes of Fox and Davis are negotiating on our behalf.

What will it take for the EU - or the UK - to say "Fthis, it's holding us back. Tear it up. Let the unshackled economy soar..."?


The future looks sleazy, the future's brown.
 
Allsorts said:
..going through it all as I wouldn't know if I'd miss anything that wasn't there, if you know what I mean.
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I know exactly what you mean. Very true.

Allsorts said:
How writ in stone is this? What happens when the desperate UK insists on making further deals with, say, the UAE which the EU finds 'dodgy' and/or unethical?
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Not at all. Look at the language. It's a statement of principles and goals - not a contract.
I don't know if you've worked with many contracts, to me this reads like a heads of agreement - but a bit looser.
That's not to say it doesn't have value.

Allsorts said:
What happens when the UK climbs under Trump's armpit and Trump offers us something that he deliberately refuses the EU - because his agenda is always for the USA, and to damage or undermine the EU is something he's made repeatedly clear he wants to do - the EU is too powerful as it stands. Eg: what happens when trump entices the UK towards what appears to be a much better deal than we could have expected, but T is doing it for the ultimate political and economic advantage of the USA over the EU? That is the way he works. I see no reason to think it also won't be the way he treats the UK after Brexit; we'll be a (willing) pawn, especially if the likes of Fox and Davis are negotiating on our behalf.
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It'll depend on the outcome of the future negotiations.

Allsorts said:
The future looks sleazy, the future's brown.
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Racist.
 
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Allsorts said:
Oops - sorry, Broon; I'd forgotten you were a Remain voter :oops:

(How will you vote on this next time, can I ask?)

By 'special' when I referred to Scotland, of course it is special since that's from whence I hail, but I was just asking why it should be considered special in respect to the EU vote more than any other part of the UK, whoever large or small. And, fair do's - I could have mentioned Wales or NI - I just thought my choice was more amusing.

Hey-ho - let's see how all this mess pans out. :)
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Vote as in to remain/rejoin the EU? if that is the case then I would vote to remain/rejoin. I am just angry at the EU as they have kinda bullied us about in this deal. (I know they set out there terms and stuck to it where we said no then maybe then just conceded)
I know we chose this (well most of us) but doesn't mean I need to like how they treat us.

I'm not saying Scotland should be considered special with the EU vote im highlighting how broken our system is that a very small amount voted in favour to leave in England dont have the exact stats same with wales yet Scotland voted well in favour to stay and are being removed. How does that work out? population?
I thought we were a union of equals or is that just the drivel we are feed to keep us quite?
 
Very pleased to hear your vote would remain the same, Broon - I was dreading a "I'll vote Leave next time just because of the way they treated us..."

I have to say, I haven't seen much of this bullying, Broon, but then I do get most of my daily from the Guardian and the BBC. Did various members of the EU negotiating team become a bit tetchy at times? Too darned right, but I cannot blame them. Did any of them say stuff like Boris and Davis? No, not that I'm aware of.

So, until you give me some examples of this bullying behaviour, I'm going to stick with the UK's negotiation team being the embarrassing lot.

Again, I have to ask - why 'Scotland' as a whole? Yes I know that all areas/constituencies voted Remain to some degree or other, but would it it have mattered if one area/constituency/city/town voted Leave? What about 2? 3?

When does 'Scotland' stop being a country that deserves/should/must be treated differently, when other areas of the country had pockets of different voting patterns compared to their immediate neighbours - what do we call these 'clusters', and do we give them special rights?

Are we not treating them as a union of 'equals' if we don't?


(But, I have to say I was chuffed to see the whole of Scotland vote that way :). I just hope it doesn't lead to the UK's destruction :oops: )
 
Of course I would vote remain as altough i might have some ruffled feathers. I still see the EU as beneficial to the UK.

I am talking about Scotland as a whole not just in the EU vote but in general. The UK parliament is set up to benefit England while keeping Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland with little to no say on matters. I know we all have our own devolved parliaments for decisions on our own country (great) but when it comes to whole UK decisions. We get shafted. Why?
Because England has by far more MPs so decisions are whats best for them and in very many cases London as we are a London central nation.

All I am saying is if the UK parliament was to give England its own parliament specifically for their issues rather than just using the UK one but other nations can't vote (which is fair not arguing that). Then they would/should relinquish the grasp of power they have over UK whole decisions and make it fairer for the Union as a whole. That is why England won't get its own parliament because then they would have to relinquish power over the UK one. I also would be willing to bet a cold can that most of the English would be in favour of their own parliament.
 
Excerpt from Merkel’s speech last Friday.
She said: “Either you are one of those who believe they can solve everything on their own and only have to think about themselves. That is nationalism in its purest form.

“This is not patriotism. Because patriotism is if you include others in the German interest and accept win-win situations.”

Sorry Angela , but “ patriotism” does not include others acting in German interests.
 
Was she talking to a German audience and which website did you get this from?
 
She was speaking at a symposium entitled “
Parliamentarism between globalization and national sovereignty.” Don’t know where it was held, as the press has been stifling news of it. Do a quick google chips. It is out there. I do wonder just what the reaction would have been had a Brit made a similar speech , but changed German interests for British interests ?
Still, this is what Remainers want.. Work for the German interest.
 
joinerjohn1 said:
She was speaking at a symposium entitled “
Parliamentarism between globalization and national sovereignty.” Don’t know where it was held, as the press has been stifling news of it. Do a quick google chips. It is out there. I do wonder just what the reaction would have been had a Brit made a similar speech , but changed German interests for British interests ?
Still, this is what Remainers want.. Work for the German interest.
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So where did you find out about it?
I can't imagine you go around googling a phrase like that so someone must have fed you the link o_O
 
joinerjohn1 said:
Excerpt from Merkel’s speech last Friday.
She said: “Either you are one of those who believe they can solve everything on their own and only have to think about themselves. That is nationalism in its purest form.

“This is not patriotism. Because patriotism is if you include others in the German interest and accept win-win situations.”

Sorry Angela , but “ patriotism” does not include others acting in German interests.
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You really need to get a handle on the difference between 'patriotism' and 'nationalism'.

If it helps, I'm a patriot and you are a nationalist.

You are welcome - any time.
 
joinerjohn1 said:
Excerpt from Merkel’s speech last Friday.
She said: “Either you are one of those who believe they can solve everything on their own and only have to think about themselves. That is nationalism in its purest form.

“This is not patriotism. Because patriotism is if you include others in the German interest and accept win-win situations.”

Sorry Angela , but “ patriotism” does not include others acting in German interests.
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IF Merkel literally said in reference to Brexit or the UK (or any other country) "...Because patriotism is if you include others in the German interest..." then I will (a) buy a hat and (b) youknowwhat.
 
If Merkel said “Either you are one of those who believe they can solve everything on their own and only have to think about themselves. That is nationalism in its purest form. This is not patriotism", then - d'uh - a statement of the bleedin' obvious.
 
joinerjohn1 said:
Excerpt from Merkel’s speech last Friday.
She said: “Either you are one of those who believe they can solve everything on their own and only have to think about themselves. That is nationalism in its purest form.
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I'd like to know what the 'or' is.
"Either you are one of those who believe they can solve everything on their own and only have to think about themselves".
Or?
This stinks of, DA's hypothesis. "There's only two types of folk", them and us, your either for us or against us type of tribe mentality.
What she's saying is.....that if we don't particularly like your patriotic ways we will label you as far-right nationalists.

I'd still like to know what the 'or' is thought.
 
Allsorts said:
You really need to get a handle on the difference between 'patriotism' and 'nationalism'.

If it helps, I'm a patriot and you are a nationalist.
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If “ Patriotism “ means doing things for “ German interest ” ( her very own words , not mine) then you’re clearly living in the wrong country DA. Perhaps you should consider moving there tomorrow.
 
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