Iwish I could say it as well as this cove :-)

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Ryluer said:
Christopher hitchens spent his life dissing religion and never recognised the good it has done. More good than his beloved atheism will ever do.
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Tell me what good has come of religion? You even believe communism is a religion, F F S.
 
PaulBlackpool said:
I hope it isn't but they are converting churches and chapels into houses and the only religious buildings being built are mosques at least as far as I know.
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Yeah but if they are British citizens they have a right to practice whatever they like i suppose. If we aren't using the churches then surely it makes sense to use them for something else. I suppose we can't have it both ways. Its only a minority of extremists that cause the problems and the government would soon get shot of them.
People should be free to believe in whatever they choose. Absolutely nothing in my case :D
 
Ryluer said:
Peace and stability.
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Do you walk round with your eyes shut all the time? Or are you deaf, dumb and blind? Never heard such daft statements from anyone in my bloody life Ryluer. (you really ought to seek psychiatric help)
 
It may well end up being the main "practicing" religion here one day, but there are untold millions who will still be ticking the christian box and classed as Christians regardless of whether they go to church or not.
 
miss pickle said:
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Without religion you're just floating on a rudderless ship.
I often think that you atheists should organise your own churches and not leave the children abandoned , where you could actually talk in praise of science (which few of you actually understand) and create your own commandments.
 
Ryluer said:
Without religion you're just floating on a rudderless ship.
I often think that you atheists should organise your own churches and not leave the children abandoned , where you could actually talk in praise of science (which few of you actually understand) and create your own commandments.
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No Ry, I am not as you say floating about on some rudderless ship. I am standing with my feet firmly on the ground, unlike you o_O wafting about with your head in the clouds.
 
Ryluer said:
Without religion you're just floating on a rudderless ship.
I often think that you atheists should organise your own churches and not leave the children abandoned , where you could actually talk in praise of science (which few of you actually understand) and create your own commandments.
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I don't need no church, I certainly don't need any commandments and my child is far from abandoned :) I doubt very much if Devs children are either.
 
Its been a blast Ry but I've just realised its midnight :( to be continued :)
 
Mr. Handyandy said:
Did you get married in a church DA ?

Mr. HandyAndy - Really
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Yes I did.

A beautiful church. My wife's parents were married there too.

And a lovely old CofE vicar. Mr Grimster.

(Mind you, even he tried to tell us in the pre-wedding chat that (a) it would be a 'sin' for us to not have children and (b) if husband and wife couldn't agree on something important, the husband's say over-rules his wife's. I don't know if he noticed my jaw hitting the floor at these suggestions - I think I hid it well. And that, dear children, is why I consider my morals to actually be better judged than even that lovely vicar's. Because he was stymied by this cretinous thing called religion whereas I was left to use my rational judgement.)
 
Ryluer said:
Christopher hitchens spent his life dissing religion and never recognised the good it has done. More good than his beloved atheism will ever do.
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Another cretinous throw-in from the sideline.

The point is, Wry, if religious people have done good things, then that is 'good'. Hurrah! But if it took their religious belief to make them do these good things, then they are not innately good people. And - as you know - the self same belief is a likely to make them do 'bad' things.

You cannot argue against that piece of common sense, can you Ry?

And again I will challenge you - tell me one bad thing done in the name of atheism. Correct - you cannot.

Atheism doesn't 'do' good and atheism doesn't 'do' bad. Atheism effectively means 'rational of thought'. 'Clear-thinking'. Evidence-based rationale.

The good news is, that when you are rational of thought, you do actually tend to do good things and avoid doing bad things - 'cos that is common sense.

So, actually, atheists do tend to do 'good'. But they don't bleat on about it as tho' it was something amazing... :rolleyes:
 
Ryluer said:
Without religion you're just floating on a rudderless ship.
I often think that you atheists should organise your own churches and not leave the children abandoned , where you could actually talk in praise of science (which few of you actually understand) and create your own commandments.
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A couple of points, Wry.

The first is, I reckon I actually have a pretty good grasp of general science - and you clearly don't. Because science is evidence based, and your beliefs are not.

It really is that simple.

And I would consider science as being the ultimate source of answers to life, the universe and everything.

We might not get to all the answers - we're already in the realms of quantum theory (which is waaaaaay over my head) - but all that exists is ultimately explainable even if we can't at the mo'.

The real point being that the answers will be based on 'evidence'. That wonderful thing that religious belief is complete devoid of.


Another point - don't try and suggest that religions give us humans our moral compass! That is a complete lie, but one often peddled by 'believers' like you.

Here's the thing - the bible is packed full of genocide, racism, misogyny, incest, slavery and other nasty stuff, all things either carried out by gawd herself or by his fervent followers in her name.

Most - even you? - followers of the scripture have actually tamed some of the most ridiculous stuff that's in the bible so's as to not be subjected to tooo much ridicule these days. (Even the lovely mormons had to very recently - and how embarrassing! - remove their racist comments about blacks from their 'bible' - this was in the 1970's?!).

Now, a question for Wry - who made the christians disavow a lot of the nasty stuff in the bible? Answer - it wasn't the christians themselves. It was pressure - ridicule - from the rational people who pointed out what a hellish doctrine the biblical christian belief actually is.

Honestly, Wry - did a bunch of church elders sit down one day and say "Hey, look at this! It says that gays should be stoned to death. That's a bit harsh, isn't it? What about people who worship false gawds - it suggest here we should slay them. Ooh, I don't fancy that too much. What d'ya reckon - should we perhaps pretend these passages don't really mean that?"

Nope - it took outside pressure to bring these religious creeps to their 'senses', to tell them "You simply cannot get away with such hellish doctrine in our present day."

They were forced to change. By a higher moral authority. That of philosophers and rational thinkers.

So - there you have it. The rational has a higher moral code than the 'believers'. The rational amongst us forced the christian community to temper their ways.

And that is why christianity toady is 'quite nice'.

(Unless it's catholicism - which is still evil.)
 
Devil's Advocate said:
A couple of points, Wry.

The first is, I reckon I actually have a pretty good grasp of general science - and you clearly don't. Because science is evidence based, and your beliefs are not.

It really is that simple.

And I would consider science as being the ultimate source of answers to life, the universe and everything.

We might not get to all the answers - we're already in the realms of quantum theory (which is waaaaaay over my head) - but all that exists is ultimately explainable even if we can't at the mo'.

The real point being that the answers will be based on 'evidence'. That wonderful thing that religious belief is complete devoid of.


Another point - don't try and suggest that religions give us humans our moral compass! That is a complete lie, but one often peddled by 'believers' like you.

Here's the thing - the bible is packed full of genocide, racism, misogyny, incest, slavery and other nasty stuff, all things either carried out by gawd herself or by his fervent followers in her name.

Most - even you? - followers of the scripture have actually tamed some of the most ridiculous stuff that's in the bible so's as to not be subjected to tooo much ridicule these days. (Even the lovely mormons had to very recently - and how embarrassing! - remove their racist comments about blacks from their 'bible' - this was in the 1970's?!).

Now, a question for Wry - who made the christians disavow a lot of the nasty stuff in the bible? Answer - it wasn't the christians themselves. It was pressure - ridicule - from the rational people who pointed out what a hellish doctrine the biblical christian belief actually is.

Honestly, Wry - did a bunch of church elders sit down one day and say "Hey, look at this! It says that gays should be stoned to death. That's a bit harsh, isn't it? What about people who worship false gawds - it suggest here we should slay them. Ooh, I don't fancy that too much. What d'ya reckon - should we perhaps pretend these passages don't really mean that?"

Nope - it took outside pressure to bring these religious creeps to their 'senses', to tell them "You simply cannot get away with such hellish doctrine in our present day."

They were forced to change. By a higher moral authority. That of philosophers and rational thinkers.

So - there you have it. The rational has a higher moral code than the 'believers'. The rational amongst us forced the christian community to temper their ways.

And that is why christianity toady is 'quite nice'.

(Unless it's catholicism - which is still evil.)
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I rest my case :) genius!
By far the most brilliant person I have ever come across on ANY forum :p by a mile.

I am impressed by goldenboy also though o_O your gonna have to watch out for him Dev, he's good! Not as good as you though :D
 
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