Judges salary

Discussion in 'Just Talk' started by Harry Stottle, Oct 12, 2018.

  1. Harry Stottle

    Harry Stottle Active Member

    Pay review body says high court judges deserve 32% rise because there's low morale among them. I don't see how anyone can have low morale on £180000 a year.
    DIY womble likes this.
  2. joinerjohn1

    joinerjohn1 Screwfix Select

    Low morale worth a 32% pay rise? Perhaps this pay review board should look at our NHS. Going by some of the pitiful sentencing carried out in recent years, judges are surely worth a review,,,, downwards.
    KIAB likes this.
  3. Allsorts

    Allsorts Well-Known Member

    Yes, it should be productivity-related; the harsher the sentence, the bigger the pay... :rolleyes:
  4. Hans_25

    Hans_25 Active Member

    Its less to do with the morale of the existing judges, more to do with needing to attract new judges and so get a decent pipeline in place.

    On the one hand the rise does seem excessive, a pay rise of £60k which is double the average wage.

    On the other hand its supply and demand. These are a few highly skilled people with a lot of responsibility.

    Ask yourself, if you were up against one of these judges, how qualified and experienced would you want them? I'd say...a lot. And for that, the UK has to pay.
    Jord86 and Allsorts like this.
  5. Allsorts

    Allsorts Well-Known Member

    Good point. Well made.
  6. Jord86

    Jord86 Well-Known Member

    Agree, but the low morale reason is absurd, far more completely deserving cases, as John said the NHS ground level staff (nurses and doctors) being a prime example.
  7. Hans_25

    Hans_25 Active Member

    I agree, in that the solution to addressing low morale should not be to simply throw money at it, but understand and address the actual reasons for low morale - I very much doubt its just a question of salary.

    Giving more to nurses is a worthy notion, however there are a very large number of them and to make any significant difference would cost £ billions. The number of high level judges is very small in comparison so even a 32% salary hike is beer money in national terms.
    Jord86 and Allsorts like this.
  8. Allsorts

    Allsorts Well-Known Member

    Sorry, Jord, but I think that's just populist rhetoric.

    These 'angels' who look after our loved ones.

    Let's be honest; most are great, but some are hellish and don't give a damn. We have all met them both when we've had to be there.

    It's a vital job, sure, and I'd be the first to admit I'd struggle with a lot (most) of it. But, it is a job like most other jobs. That it involves looking after folk doesn't necessarily make it a 'special' job run by 'special' people.

    Like every job, some folk are good and some are in it for a 'job'.

    It's too easy a call to say "They are sooo deserving." Like every job, some are some aren't.

    Ditto the armed services - the easy populist call for all right-wingers. I mean, who on earth would diss' those young lads who go out and protect our country?!

    Soz, these young lads are vital to the country, sure, but don't tell me they are all driven by 'protecting our country'. That's too easy a call, and not honest.

    Let's try and be honest. Most join up thinking they simply ain't gonna die on the job. Most join up thinking they are gonna be seen as 'heroes', given 'respect', go see the world, kill a few baddies.

    Many - a completely disproportionate amount - are psychopaths. I don't mean that in a 'bad' way; I'm glad all the psychos go there where they might be able to fulfil what drives them, rather than do it in our pubs and on our streets... :)

    But don't - DO NOT - try and 'use' our angels and our soldiers as fodder for your political discussions. They are working folk like all other working folk.

    (If you want to get political, have a wee look at the most compassionate of our angels, those who have the patience and temperament to look after our weakest. They are often immigrants.)
  9. Jord86

    Jord86 Well-Known Member

    No it's not just a case of salary, I myself doubt most people unhappy in their jobs is purely down to money, usually that's down the line behind workload, stress and lack of support, I meant if low morale is a reason to review high level public servants salaries then what about other lower level public servants salaries?
    Richard_ likes this.
  10. joinerjohn1

    joinerjohn1 Screwfix Select

    In that case, all judges deserve a rather large drop in wages.
    Allsorts likes this.
  11. Hans_25

    Hans_25 Active Member

    Wow, that was a bit full on. You have a point, but then so does Jord.

    I didn't read into Jord's post that he's a populist right wing xenophobic bigot, perhaps I'm missing something.
    Allsorts likes this.
  12. Allsorts

    Allsorts Well-Known Member

    I 'liked' that as a 'lol' :)
  13. Allsorts

    Allsorts Well-Known Member

    Yup - I'm a bit piddled so it tumbles out - with lots of typo corrections... :oops:

    Yup, Jord ain't no 'populist right wing xenophobic bigot' (nice terminology :) ), but I'm trying to make the point that simply declaring support for our nurses and soldiers is a simplistic - and often politically-motivated - thing to do.

    On-line media is full of it. Usually right-wing sites.
  14. Richard_

    Richard_ Active Member

    Supply & demand. Apparently the number of applicants for new judges has halved in the last decade. So either the public have to accept their cases won't be heard for a long time along with miscarriages of justice, or we have to pay them enough to give up their day job to be a judge.

    I think working conditions may be a bigger factor, there is constant drip of courts being rather chaotic and cases thrown out for failing to follow the correct processes, or the CPS withdrawing cases because they haven't time to prepare, or when they do prepare they realise there was insufficient evidence to make a case for trail.

    They're probably hoping that more pay will help cover the deficiencies, but I think at that level people are more focussed on getting the job done properly than the cash itself. Talking of which there's a dearth of barristers doing legal aid, the conditions are so frustrating that they're all off to do commercial, private and corporate work. Imagine travelling for couple of hours to defend a case to be told it's cancelled so you won't get paid.
    Last edited: Oct 12, 2018
    Allsorts likes this.
  15. joinerjohn1

    joinerjohn1 Screwfix Select

    Perhaps our government could get Diane Abbott to do the maths. That way these judges would get 32% of the figure she first thought of, minus 22/53ths of her age last birthday ( all depending on which day of the week it is, and which way the wind is blowing.) :p:p:p
  16. joinerjohn1

    joinerjohn1 Screwfix Select

    Ahh, would this be the “ means tested” legal aid ? You know the one, whereby people who earn more, get more “legal aid”, than someone on NMW, who won’t qualify for the same “ legal aid “ . ;)
  17. Allsorts

    Allsorts Well-Known Member

    It is indeed supply and demand. Coupled with what is required to become a high-court judge.

    Some may well be misguided arris ols, but most are very well educated and have gone through some serious commitment to get their post. It is not one for the many.
  18. Allsorts

    Allsorts Well-Known Member

    Ahh, would this be Mr Cynical who thinks he's making a point by being, well, cynical?

    With a wink.

    To hedge his bets.
  19. Richard_

    Richard_ Active Member

    As for the NHS, remember Hunt's "We'll have an extra 5,000 GPs by 2020"? He kept proclaiming it despite the evidence pointing the other way. In the last 6 months the number of GPs went DOWN by 900 thanks to early retirement and falling recruitment.

    Regarding nurses, I know a few and one applied for a job at Aldi. She's 20 years experience and manages a team of 15 nurses, but paid less than a trainee manger at Aldi. It's mad when making sure the shelves are stacked properly is more generously rewarded than making sure someone is comfortable when they are dying, or a vulnerable person needing safeguarding.

    You know your housebound elderly relative needing care? Our society says she's worth less than getting a loaf of bread on a shelf.
    Jord86 and Allsorts like this.
  20. Allsorts

    Allsorts Well-Known Member

    Who is going to be the first to mention that judges who abide the rule of constitutional law will be termed "enemies of the people" if that judgement goes against that of lying bigots?

    Oops - that will be me. My bad.

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