LAP Twin LED Batten 60W 5600lm 5ft (7223V)

Discussion in 'Electricians' Talk' started by G4TRA, Dec 31, 2018.

  1. G4TRA

    G4TRA New Member

    I am intrigued as to how, if these battens are daisy chained (as they are design to), that the earth is fed from batten to batten to enable a full certification of the installation to be approved. I am aware that these are double insulated which is fine for a single batten installation, but for a multiple daisy chained installation there seems to be no means of feeding on the incoming earth. Hence there is a risk that all wiring after the first batten is poorly protected (with no earth connected) and the installation will not be to current 2018 regs.
    I am not an electrician mind you, so may well have missed something obvious here?
  2. Bazza

    Bazza Screwfix Select

    This is a common issue with many Class II light fittings. The lights themselves do not require an earth, but the lighting circuit does!

    Simply provide a separate connector in the fittings that provides continuity for the earth (CPC) from the start to the end of the circuit.

    And of course, test that the earth is there at the origin, and that it is also there at the final light fitting. You’ll obviously test that when you measure the EFLI/Zs at the end of the lighting circuit!
    KIAB likes this.
  3. peter palmer

    peter palmer Super Member

    Why would it need to? You would feed the first batten with 2 core flex if it was double insulated wouldn't you so there won't even be an earth to continue.
  4. peter palmer

    peter palmer Super Member

    Are these not "link-light" type lights as the op talks about daisy chaining them. Don't buy lap **** myself.
  5. Bazza

    Bazza Screwfix Select

    I assumed he means to have several separate fittings connected by additional fixed wiring.
    Maybe a wrong assumption!
  6. Vin

    Vin Active Member

    I fitted several of these recently and spotted the same potential problem.

    They are designed to daisy chain ad they have a connector at each end but no way of continuing the earth which leaves the interconnecting cables unprotected.
  7. KIAB

    KIAB Super Member

    And I would never fit anything by LAP!
  8. G4TRA

    G4TRA New Member

    Hi Bazza and others

    Thanks for the input I thought this was the case.

    I am using nine of these lights on 4 separate circuits and to minimise cable wastage daisy-chained them (went in one end and came out the other as these lights are designed to do). So it means you have to strip and modify these battens with a earth fed through them with corresponding additional connectors, or arrange an earth feed to the other end.

    Makes a mockery of having a feed at both ends.

    I feel sure that there must be something in relevant regulations that advises against the design/import/installation of this sort of arrangement. Also I don't remember anything in the instructions that advised as to this potential problem in the "instructions" that came with the 7223V.

    Seems odd to me that a batten is being sold that has to be modified to use it in the correct manner.
  9. Comlec

    Comlec Screwfix Select

    Unprotected against what?
  10. Bazza

    Bazza Screwfix Select

    I’d install small junction box for the mains interconnect circuitry with a short 2-core to each light.

    I don’t know how the interconnect legality bit works. Maybe LAP etc can certify that several of their lights interconnected with their purpose link cables constitutes a whole CLASS II fitting and an earth is not required.

    BS7671 and product certification are very separate things.
  11. peter palmer

    peter palmer Super Member

    I still don't get it. How are these connected from the supply, is it a cable with a moulded plug on the end where the light has a male socket on one end and a female on the other so they can be plugged together or is it just a pinching type gland on either end?

    Either way it wont have a connector for a permanent live anyway so you won't be continuing the lighting circuit to other rooms through them anyway, however its done its just designed to add additional lights of the same design to it I would have thought. And if that's the idea then just use a twin flex to connect them all up, no need for an earth at all. Or am I missing something
  12. peter palmer

    peter palmer Super Member

    Just to add, the earth doesn't protect the cable in any way, just the appliance or fitting, you can run two core cable either surface or hidden behind plaster if you want, no need for any earth in it.
  13. Comlec

    Comlec Screwfix Select

    @peter palmer I fit a few of these, mainly lofts and garages, to happy customers. Each end has a push fit connection for line and neutral, and a compression gland to secure the cable. Very quick to fit too, just screw the spring clips to the surface and pop the fitting up.
    Vin likes this.
  14. peter palmer

    peter palmer Super Member

    So why would it need an earth then?
  15. Bazza

    Bazza Screwfix Select

    Eh? Did you never hear of a CPC?
  16. peter palmer

    peter palmer Super Member

    Do you need a CPC (or earth as I) call it for a double insulated fitting, personally I'd just run a twin flex or cable to it. The requirements for burying a cable in plaster is an RCD, not that it has an earth. Maybe if it was out of the zone it might need an earthed metal covering of some sort though.
  17. Vin

    Vin Active Member

    Against damage, a nail/screw being put through the cable for instance.

    Perhaps I have got this wrong but personally I would never dream of installing fixed cabling in any property unless it had an earth conductor irrespective of what it was feeding.

    As I say, I might be wrong and haven't studied the regs in this context, it just seems wrong to me.

    When I fitted these lamps I used a junction box and i terminated the earth conductor in some earth sleeving within the fitting.
    Last edited: Dec 31, 2018
  18. Comlec

    Comlec Screwfix Select

    @Vin the CPC does not protect the cable. It is the conductor that connects the earth of class 1 equipment to the main earth terminal. A CPC should be present at each point where accessories can be connected.

    Mechanical protection is used the prevent damage to cables.
  19. Bob Rathbone

    Bob Rathbone Screwfix Select

    The regulations require that a CPC is provided at every outlet (unless it's an earth free environment), this then requires that a CPC must be provide in or adjacent to the conductors supplying the outlets. A luminaire is recognised as an outlet, so a CPC must be provided.
    The LAP LED lights have a grip gland at each end and a connector for P&N but no CPC, it would be possible to fish a CPC through the fitting if they were connected as a string.
  20. Vin

    Vin Active Member

    I've read all the opinions on this and I can see both sides but I would still be reluctant to install fixed wiring, particularly when it's hidden under plaster or over a ceiling unless it had a continuous CPC.

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