Laying planks over floor panels

Discussion in 'Builders' Talk' started by Vroom, Oct 19, 2006.

  1. Vroom

    Vroom Member

    The wife has decided that we should have a proper wood floor in the lounge, instead of carpet over floor panels.

    Rather than take up the floor panels and lay full-thickness floor boards I wondered whether it would be simpler (and cheaper) to lay thinner planking over the floor panels, with a suitable underlay in between.

    Presumably the thinnest tongue-and-groove cladding is going to be too weak for the job but what thickness would you think will be up to the job?

    There are steps down into the lounge so we don't have to worry about doors catching on it, etc.
     
  2. audi-evo

    audi-evo Active Member

    what exactly is the sufloor made from and is it engineered or solid wood you plan to fit?
     
  3. Vroom

    Vroom Member

    Under the carpet now we have fairly large sheets of floor panelling, like chipboard. Beneath that are large rafters with a couple of feet of voidspace beneath.

    We'd like to lay solid wood over this, not laminate.
     
  4. trustmark

    trustmark New Member

    dose she mean a proper wood floor or dose she mean laminate
     
  5. audi-evo

    audi-evo Active Member

    then vroom you need to 3/4 ply the floor then nail the solid wood to that.
     
  6. splinter2

    splinter2 New Member

    If it wood or engineered flooring it will be 18mm thick plus underlay,This can be layed as a floating floor onto the chipboard flooring you already have .this flooring is quite exspensive so be aware.Other than that it is **** laminated flooring,also layed as a floating floor (which is about 10mm thick)
     
  7. audi-evo

    audi-evo Active Member

    "If it wood or engineered flooring it will be 18mm thick plus"
    nope!
    as a rule solids are 18 to 22mm thick, engineered are most commonly 14 or 15mm thick.
    Engineered can be floated solid can't.
     
  8. splinter2

    splinter2 New Member

    I've got to be honest with you audi-evo ,I would agree with you ,but I have been told that this is common pratise now-a-days and my veiws on this subject are old fashioned .So I have taken a slightly different tact in my old age and have started to agree with these views on flooring ,after all everyone will be ripping it all up in a couple of years because they will be wanting the new fashionable flooring,probually be brown lino
     
  9. audi-evo

    audi-evo Active Member

    "this is common pratise now-a-days"

    only by people with no understanding of the material they are using, and no understanding of the severe consiquences of floating a solid wood floor.
    If you are going to fit this at least follow the basic manufacturers instructions.

    "after all everyone will be ripping it all up in a couple of years"
    The worst case would see this floor rip itself up in a week!
     
  10. splinter2

    splinter2 New Member

    YesI was trying to be polite to you but it seems that you know so much more ,A well travelled man no doubt ,but read this ,they have been using this system for years in Eurpope and other countries around the world and they are quite happy with it .
    Still the English way is the best,You suffer from one basic English ingredent a lack of a sense of humour and if the truth be know you have been in IT all youre live and just done a NVQ in carpentry LOL
     
  11. audi-evo

    audi-evo Active Member

    europe and around the world,
    nope!
    grundorf (german) no to floating
    bruce hardwoods (usa) no to floating
    fita (flooring industry training assoc) no to floating.
    I have no nvq's no training in carpentry/joinerty, i just fit floors, wood/laminate/carpets/smooth floor.
    I am a floor fitter, i know all about them i do it every day, i've done it for years, i have been to every training course around from all top manufacturers(including grundorf in germany who would never float solid) , i keep training, if something new comes out i go and learn all about it.
    It is not particularly the english way infact we tend to follow usa if anyone.
    Nothing wrong with having a laugh (i have a few on here)but giving people bad advice is just wrong.
     
  12. splinter2

    splinter2 New Member

    So you are saying systems like "JUNKA" are no good albeit they have been going for well over 20 yrs.

    To the OP I'll give the following options as you have not specified what type of timber you want to use.
    1) ripe up the chipboard flooring and replace with floorboarding fixed to the joists.
    2)Use afloating floor ,be it engineered or solid like the one mentioned above .If you're chipboard flooring is in good condition there will be no need to go to the added exspense of laying threequarter ply down first
    I do not recommend using any wooden flooring thinner than 18mm.
    These options I give with full confidence, being a fully qualified apprentice served carpenter with 32 yrs exsperience
    These options are give
     
  13. audi-evo

    audi-evo Active Member

    First of all it is not junka, it is junckers, secondly yes "junckers" recomend nail down.
    I keep all manufaturers fitting guides to hand and junckers def say nail with the exception of sports halls and comercial designs.
     
  14. splinter2

    splinter2 New Member

    You accused me of giving people bad advise then pick me up on my spelling, which I am grateful for as It enabled me to visit "junkas" web-site ,there it gives home-owners various ways of fixing options :-using a clipsystem, gluing and nailing plus 2 other options which I did not down load so I will have to reserve judgement on.
    So I am going to accuse you of giving bad advise,as you advised that three quarter ply HAS to be layed down first,then the flooring HAS to be nailed to this ply .
    I would suggest the ply is totally unnessasary if the orginal chipboard flooring is sound and that a solid wood floor using a clip system for instance would be suitable
     
  15. audi-evo

    audi-evo Active Member

    Clip fit is expensive and time consuming, stick down involves lots of prep, nail down is how it is done in domestic locations.
    Yes you can clipfit and junckers say you can stick down using all of their product glue sealer etc.
    However no one will allow floating solid in the same way you float engineered or laminate.
    In the real world you will never use the clipfit in domestic and why would you, it's too expensive and by the time you set it up i could have half my nail down floor done.
    Using a portanailer on chipboard tends to punch holes in it so you get no purchase on the fixing.
    I don't agree with gluing solid at all but some manufacturers will allow fully stuck, but your idea that it can e floated is just wrong.
    I don't doubt your skills as a carpenter all i am trying to tell you and the poster is how to get the best job done the right way, the way it is done in the flooring trade, how it's done every day.
    It is done this way because it is the least problematic method of installing a floor. It works.
     
  16. splinter2

    splinter2 New Member

    Well now what you are doing is back tracking ,you had the cheek to try and ridicule my options for laying a wooden and to say youre way is the only way,and then to try and confirm this by warning of the dire consequences of what will happen to a wooden floor if is not nailed down you should know if a floor board is going to lift shrink or move in any way it will do so weither it is nailed down or not.THis is due to the timber not being seasoned and/or the moisture cotent is to high .Which flooring systems should not suffer from.
    I would also like to point out that exspense by the OP was never mentioned,only by me.As for the problematic side of things ,I would suggest you mean it is less problematic for you as a fitter to do it your way(which is not the only way in the "real world")and not nessacarly the way the customer wants.
    I would like to point out again that the options I gave are soundand you have yet, and come to think of it will not be able to prove otherwise
     
  17. audi-evo

    audi-evo Active Member

    The poster did indeed ask for the cheapest method, you said float it like laminate, i said you are wrong and you are.
    The safest and cheapest way to do it is nail it down.
    There is no back tracking.
    Also as they are going down the cheapest route i hardly think they will be buying junckers.
    All solid wood floors will react to seasonal changes, in winter when you put central heating on they will shrink and cause gaps, in summer as the humidity rises the gaps will close up, if the humidity gets to high the floor will cup and buckle, floating a solid floor in the same method as engineered simply won't be stong enough to cope with these changes.
    This has little to do with how the timber was seasoned.
     
  18. audi-evo

    audi-evo Active Member

    splinter are you just pulling my p155er
    quote
    "I wouldn't recomend just glueing oak flooring as a fixing"
    by, YOU!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
     
  19. audi-evo

    audi-evo Active Member

    Posted: Dec 14, 2004 9:06 PM
     
  20. splinter2

    splinter2 New Member

    The changing of the seasons Would only affect the types of flooring that we are talking about minimumally if at all,(What you are saying is a get out clause for someone that has fitted a floor BADLY)that is why a exspandtion gap is left around the flooring.A board will only cup if itis cut out of the tree wrong,that is If the annual growth rings are pararell to the width of the board,thus when it shrinks it will cup.I would also like to point out again that shrinkage has everything to seasonig timber because the main point of seaoning is to reduce the moisture content of timber to such a stable level,it then can be used in houses with no dire cosequencies
    Ialso noticed that the OP said there was steps leading to this floor ,do you think it would be safe to increase the top step by 40mm?
     

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