LED into Lighting circuit

Discussion in 'Electricians' Talk' started by CalChip, Jan 28, 2021.

  1. CalChip

    CalChip New Member

    Hi, need some advice on a project I am planning.

    I want to replace the existing pendant light in a small office to LED downlighting hidden behind coving.

    My plan is to have the LEDs connected to the light switch in the room.

    This is my novice current plan - let me know if I'm way off and going to burn my house down.

    - Pull the existing pendent back through the ceiling into the loft and deal with the hole.
    - Connect the cable which the bulb would be attached to a socket box in the loft
    - Plug in the LED strip (which is designed to be plugged into 230v wall socket)
    - Leave switched on so lights can be controlled with remote.
    - The socket will be in the loft and therefore never used for anything else.

    Is this the best way to do it? Could I take the plug off and wire directly into the cable using a terminal box or similar.

    https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B07ZQ9B9HW/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_image_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1 this is an example of the LEDs intended to be used.

    As I'm sure is clear I am quite a novice so layman's terms if possible please.

  2. Bazza

    Bazza Screwfix Select

    If you take the ceiling rose into the loft you will need to replace it with a suitable junction box. The pendant’s rose is not designed to be left laying around, unsecured.

    best route would be to fit a deepish back box up in the loft. Reterminate the lighting cables inside the box and fit a 13A socket. Mark the socket “lighting only”. Then you can plug your LED in.
  3. Dave_C

    Dave_C Member

  4. CalChip

    CalChip New Member

    Thanks for the info guys.

    When I undo my ceiling rose I only seem to have the 1 live and 1 neutral cable entering the terminals with then the cables for the lamp leaving.
  5. Dave_C

    Dave_C Member

    Then you'll either have a junction box already in the loft, or else you'll have "loop at the switch" wiring. Either way, the job is probably easier - connect that cable to a socket, or if there is a junction box, replace the cable from there to the ceiling rose with a new cable to where you want to place your socket. Is there an earth?
  6. CalChip

    CalChip New Member

    OK, cool.

    No, there is no Earth in the ceiling rose or in the switch if I remember rightly...
  7. Dave_C

    Dave_C Member

    How old is your house / electrical installation? Hopefully the earth is just cut off in the cable and not connected, and you have a plastic ceiling rose and switch.

    Have you looked in the loft above the ceiling pendant? A photo of the inside of the light switch would probably show how your lighting circuit is wired.
  8. CalChip

    CalChip New Member

    Its 1950's and is slowly being rewired a room at a time - I know not ideal. The ceiling rose is just a simple plastic arrangement.

    I haven't been in the loft yet but i do recall there being junction boxes in there.

    The light switch I changed recently and definitely only has a live and neutral. Which are red and black to show how old it is.
  9. Dave_C

    Dave_C Member

    Even though they're red and black, if they are the only two wires at the switch, then they will be the live and "switched live" back to a junction box in your loft.

    I'm only DIY, so can't judge the safety of what you're planning, but I would hesitate to do anything if there was no earth available in the circuit.

    My next step would be to find the junction box for that light, and see what's inside. You could post a photo here. I would turn off the power before touching it though!
  10. CalChip

    CalChip New Member

    Thanks for the advice. I'll head up in the loft over the weekend and take a look for a junction box and see what we have. I haven't been up in a while.
  11. Banallsheds

    Banallsheds Well-Known Member

    It is very bad practice to put a 13amp socket on the lighting circuit. This is absolutely dangerous when there is no earth. Don't do it. Those LEDs do not have a plug, they have a power supply so you cannot remove it. You either need a different power supply with wire ends that you can wire to a junction box or a completely different set of LEDs with such a power supply.
  12. Bazza

    Bazza Screwfix Select

    @CalChip the post from Banallsheds is wrong. This person has a number of bees in his bonnet that he believes are the truth.

    in most of his inputs on these subjects he is asserting that his version of life is the truth.
    Or his arguments are based on pedantry about terms that are in common use.

    Let me put your mind at rest on two points here.

    It isn’t. BS7671 - the wiring regulations. States that a 13A socket is specifically permitted to be connected to a lighting circuit. PS banallsheds has admitted that he does not even have a copy of BS7671.
    Note: I do share his point about a proper earth being provided to this socket. This is needed.
    Not correct. The LED set in your Amazon link includes a 24volt plug in power supply (driver) for the LEDS. It must go in to a 13A socket.

    Press on, sir. Attend to the missing earth - your lighting supply should have one. You may find one in your trip to the loft!
    CalChip likes this.
  13. CosD

    CosD Active Member

    Can I just add, there is no reason at all to have a plug type led strip; There are plenty of LED strips that work from transformers, this would also give you the option to work the light from a switch on the wall rather than just a remote.

    This is just my opinion, but I would be dubious on buying some cheap Chinese strip which I intend to use for main lighting, apart from the actual light being poor quality, there are many good specialist suppliers that will offer good advice on what to buy to suit your requirements.
  14. Banallsheds

    Banallsheds Well-Known Member

    Lets look at this an an intelligent person who thinks rather than a sheep that follows the regs even when they are dubious.

    1. Putting a higher rated socket on a circuit that it is not designed for is clearly bad practice. One day the regs will wake up to this.

    Not having a copy of BS7671 is not a crime.

    2. Your LED set clearly does not have a plug you can remove. If you want to put it on a light circuit you must either get a new suitable power supply or a suitable LED set.
  15. Bazza

    Bazza Screwfix Select

    So, you admit that this is your personal opinion, and not something that has been proven to be correct by greater minds than yours and mine?

    If you don't like the regs, then get yourself on J/PEL64 and have the regs changed. Up until that point stop going on and on and on about something that doesn't exist.
  16. Banallsheds

    Banallsheds Well-Known Member

    I have said it is common sense and one day the regs will wake up to this. I stand that.
  17. Bazza

    Bazza Screwfix Select

    Your personal opinion does not necessarily make it “common sense”!
  18. FlyByNight

    FlyByNight Screwfix Select

    Post has gone ... another dangerous suggestion removed.
  19. Bazza

    Bazza Screwfix Select

  20. Sparkielev

    Sparkielev Screwfix Select

    Shame really was looking forward to the fireworks

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