Light on permanently and switch controlling different room

Discussion in 'Electricians' Talk' started by Pheebs, Nov 21, 2020.

  1. Pheebs

    Pheebs New Member

    Can anyone please give me any pointers of where to go from here. After changing bedroom light, the bedroom light is now permanently on. Not only this, the bedroom light switch controls the upstairs hall light turning it on and off. I have tried everything I can with no luck, and also had a colleague who is a part time electrician round this morning who spent over an hour but still no joy!

    Wiring of bedroom light attached...
     

    Attached Files:

  2. terrymac

    terrymac Screwfix Select

    You have mixed up the switched live with permanent live on the bedroom fitting for starters.
    Are there 4 grey cables ,visible .whats that in top right of pic ?
    Is it a fifth ?
    Have you altered any wiring at any switches ?
    Has any fuse blown or MCB tripped when working on wiring at ceiling fitting ?
    And lastly do you have a multimeter ?
     
  3. Comlec

    Comlec Screwfix Select

    Oh dear. I take it you do not have a before photo.
    Even a part-time electrician should be able to sort this out.
     
  4. Comlec

    Comlec Screwfix Select

    Think it is the edge of the fitting bracket
     
  5. terrymac

    terrymac Screwfix Select

    Yes it is ,can see it clearly now.
     
  6. Pheebs

    Pheebs New Member

    Thank you for your reply and help. To answer your questions:

    Yes there are 4 grey cables.
    No wiring at switches has been altered.
    At one point yes an MCB switch went down and wouldn't not switch on again. There was a flash of light behind it when this happened.
    No multimeter, just a voltage detector pen.

    I have just had another go and I am now the closest I have got to fixing it. Upstairs hall switch now turns on both upstairs hall and bedroom. Both lights are very dim. When hall switch is OFF, bedroom switch doesn't do anything. When hall switch is ON and both lights are on, turning OFF the bedroom switch makes the light go out and the hall light goes very bright.

    I'm almost there!
     

    Attached Files:

    Last edited: Nov 21, 2020
  7. Comlec

    Comlec Screwfix Select

    This may help the discussion
    upload_2020-11-21_23-4-57.png

    Cables A and C are 2core+E
    Cables B and D look like 1Core +E

    If the lamp is on all the time then C or D must be a permanent live.

    My guess
    D and A are feed in - feed out
    B and D are the switch drop
     
  8. terrymac

    terrymac Screwfix Select

    A pic of the wiring at the bedroom switch would be helpful .
    I can't see why anyone would use two cables for the switch ,but of course it's possible
     
  9. The Happy Builder

    The Happy Builder Active Member

    ***.

    That wiring is absolutely disgraceful, it needs tidying up with ALL THE EARTH WIRES JOINED TOGETHER.
     
  10. Comlec

    Comlec Screwfix Select

    Very true but does not solve the connection problem.
     
  11. Comlec

    Comlec Screwfix Select

    Anyway, bedtime for me. Hope the OP does the same so will be alive in the morning.
     
  12. The Happy Builder

    The Happy Builder Active Member

    Just because it works doesn’t mean it’s safe, how come I am the only person to say get your act together and reinstate the earth connections?
     
  13. Comlec

    Comlec Screwfix Select

    That was next on the list.
     
  14. spirits are real 2016

    spirits are real 2016 Screwfix Select

    One reconnect all earths.
    Two join three A,B and C reds together and single red (D) goes to light live terminal.
    If not working swop B and D around with B going to light live terminal and D in the three reds..
     
  15. Alan sherriff

    Alan sherriff Active Member

    Your part time e
    lectrician should with his continuity meter find switch wire disconect all connections noting that the black wire if it has not been disturbed is the neutral. Once found switch wires all the rest should be looped supply cables
     
  16. Alan sherriff

    Alan sherriff Active Member

     
  17. Alan sherriff

    Alan sherriff Active Member

    I know it sounds drastic but split all four twin and earths find the switch drop pair and put to one side and mark up then get other three twin and earths and put all reds together all blacks together then switch and check rest of the house if all working connect red from swith cable to all the Reds and the other cable in that twin and Earth mark as switch wire and connect to live on the light brown flex then connect all the blacks to the light blue flex check light goes on and off then sort out earths connect all together and use earth for fitting if replacing a fitting with no earth just park them up
    Once working hopefully tidy up with decent connectors
     
  18. Pheebs

    Pheebs New Member

    That is for all the input guys. Ok here's an update. Have connected all the earth's together as advised. I have tried both of "spirits are real" suggestions and one tripped the fuse box when turning bedroom switch off and the other tripped straight away as soon as I put power back on. Have uploaded photos of the 2 sets ups I have tried. Also uploaded bedroom switch as someone mentioned this would be helpful. 20201122_094837.jpg 20201122_094601.jpg 20201122_095126.jpg
     
  19. Pheebs

    Pheebs New Member

    I couldn't understand your suggestions Alan Sherriff but I'm going to try and get my head around what you are saying over a cuppa.
     
  20. jay123

    jay123 Member

    Pheebs in normal state, when you turn your bedroom light on your landing light should come on too? Even though its a single gang switch?

    ok so looking at the picture, the switched live(black) hasnt been sleeved with red at the switch, it hasnt the other side either by the looks of it. So one of your black cables which is in the neutral at the fitting is the switched live and in the wrong terminal
     
    Last edited: Nov 22, 2020 at 10:15 AM

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