LPG UPSO requirements

Discussion in 'Plumbers' Talk' started by Skyflyer, May 13, 2021.

  1. Skyflyer

    Skyflyer New Member

    Installing 2 x 19kg propane cylinders with manual changeover to supply domestic gas hob.

    Builder has done the copper pipework but he isnt gas safe so his 'tame' GasSafe sub is planned to do the remainder. I am supplying materials

    I have bought an MC regulator with PRV and OPSO (which BES say is compliant) but this subby says an UPSO is needed.

    I have checked regs and also contacted Gas Safe Technical and the manufacturers (Clesse) and they all assure me it isnt required, but this guy apparently wont move - he wont install it without an UPSO.

    I accept that he may have a personal reason for that, even if it isnt a regulation, but as I am not dealing directly with him I cannot ask! My builder would seem reluctant to upset this guy with whom he has built a long working relationship.

    Why would I want an UPSO on a 2 x 19kg installation? Surely the point of the flame detect on the hob is that when pressure falls and flame goes out the gas is cut off. There are no credible scenarios other than exhaustion for the pressure to drop on p[ropane supplying just a hob. If it was a CH boiler that might be different!

    Although I prefer manual changeover if I'd fitted an ACD how would it detect when to change cylinders if an UPSO was fitted?

    Finally if I need to find my own contractor, will anyone do the job if they dont know the 'history' of the pre-laid pipework?
  2. pppmacca43

    pppmacca43 Screwfix Select

    I’d be surprised if any gas fitters will sign off any new pipework done by a builder they don’t know.
  3. Skyflyer

    Skyflyer New Member

    Great, so i'm stuck with buying another regulator with a feature that the regulations do not require, that provides virtually zero added benefit because the "Gas Safe qualified" fitter doesnt actually know his stuff. But god help me if I was to DIY because I am not a "competent person" like him !
  4. just pumps

    just pumps Screwfix Select

    Any fitter worth his salt will carry out an inspection of an installation and do a pressure drop test before signing it off. Mine on a boat is tested every 4 years or when an appliance is replaced.
  5. pppmacca43

    pppmacca43 Screwfix Select

    you know you don’t have to use him don’t you? Maybe u should have got a qualified gas fitter to carry out all the work instead of entrusting an unqualified builder because it was a bit cheaper
  6. pppmacca43

    pppmacca43 Screwfix Select

    I suggest u speak to your builder and voice your concerns, if he isn’t willing to pass them on and get an answer, then ask for the gas engineers number and discuss with him, there may be a valid reason.
    Was about 15 years ago I passed my LPG (long expired now) and I can’t remember a single thing, so I can’t say if it is advisable to fit it not unfortunately.
  7. jonathanc

    jonathanc Screwfix Select

    First question is whether the gas safe fella is lpg certified

    check him out on the gas safe register
    pppmacca43, kitfit1 and just pumps like this.
  8. kitfit1

    kitfit1 Screwfix Select

    Exactly this. Just because someone is Gas Safe registered does not mean that they are LPG certified. In my experience over 90% of gas safe installers have no experience of LPG, and certainly are not LPG certified.
    just pumps and pppmacca43 like this.
  9. Reference to gas safety regs gas fitting includes pipework that will carry gas see below. Your builder should not be the one putting the pipe in! Might be worth ringing gas safe back about that one! Regarding his "gas safe sub" as others have said about knowledge and making sure he is qualified for LPG.

    I work on a large amount of LPG installations on glamping pods (LAV/RPH). with cylinders & auto changeovers, UPSO is not mandatory. They are found on large tank fed installations.

    Qualification and supervision
    3.—(1) No person shall carry out any work in relation to a gas fitting or gas storage vessel unless he is competent to do so.

    (2) The employer of any person carrying out such work for that employer, every other employer and self-employed person who has control to any extent of such work and every employer and self-employed person who has required such work to be carried out at any place of work under his control shall ensure that paragraph (1) above is complied with in relation to such work.

    (3) Without prejudice to the generality of paragraphs (1) and (2) above and subject to paragraph (4) below,no employer shall allow any of his employees to carry out any work in relation to a gas fitting or service pipework and no self-employed person shall carry out any such work, unless the employer or self-employed person, as the case may be, is a member of a class of persons approved for the time being by the Health and Safety Executive for the purposes of this paragraph.
  10. Skyflyer

    Skyflyer New Member

    Just a few passive aggressive assumptions on your part there!

    The gas fitter is LPG qualified, that is why my builder cannot do the work himself. Far from being cheaper I'm sure its more expensive as no doubt he is putting a mark up on it. It was a fixed price contract - so dont accuse me of doing this on the cheap, and the builder is presumably entrusted by the gas guy he regularly uses to do the pipework. And you know what, in the real world thats what happens - same with electrics. How may electricians really genuinely supervise every single socket etc that their employees wire up?

    With respect I'm not an idiot - it is precisely BECAUSE the guy is qualified and because I can read and understand the regs myself and because I cannot find anyone else that agrees that an UPSO is needed and because I cannot get to speak to the fitter directly that I have asked the question here. I didnt want to "read the riot act" until i was sure of my ground.
    I have now arranged for my own gas fitter - who agrees, yet again that no UPSO is required - and told my builder to cancel his chap because I dont want anyone working on my system who doesnt understand the regulations or isnt willing to explain why he thinks an UPSO is a good idea. I dint give a toss whether he has a GAs safe registration because clearly that aint worth squat.

    You clearly have a massive chip on your shoulder because you perceive that unqualified people are taking away your livelihood. Maybe, but if your understanding of the regs is at the same level as the guy I'm talking about, then Gas Safe deserves to be binned as any sort of guarantee that you will actually get a competent person.
  11. pppmacca43

    pppmacca43 Screwfix Select

    Hahaha I’m not a gas fitter(anymore) haven’t done it for a few years, believe me I couldn’t give a monkeys about anyone taking my work, I’m not self employed. I was simply stating that you don’t have to use him and regardless of what happens in the real world u had a unqualified builder putting in LPG gas pipework. Let’s hope he has done it correctly.

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