M class extraction

Discussion in 'Kitchen Fitters' Talk' started by Gavo 78, Nov 8, 2018.

  1. Gavo 78

    Gavo 78 New Member

    Need to upgrade my extraction for m class with auto power tool take off preferably 20 ltrs or more just wondering what other fitters are using .
    Any opinions appreciated
     
  2. sospan

    sospan Well-Known Member

    Festool is the default for most. Tuf are trying to edge into the market but their airflow rate and noise can be a problem.

    I have a Festool CTL Midi 110v and a CTM EAC 240v. Festool have recently released a couple of good add ons to their machines; a blue tooth remote that you can use from cordless tools or a cordless switch on the hose end and a also a cyclone pre seperator that saves you emptying the bags so often
     
  3. Gavo 78

    Gavo 78 New Member

    Cheers for reply,probably going to give the CTM 26 EAC a go
     
  4. sospan

    sospan Well-Known Member

    The good thing with festool is that if you don't get on with it, they will take it back and if it gets stolen you get a new replacement for £100.

    The other thing is that they have field reps whom will come out give you a demo / loan kit.
     
  5. Mr Rusty

    Mr Rusty Well-Known Member

    This is potentially a bit of a minefield. Assuming UK 110v, the vac companies are supplying 16A plugs on their 110v vacs. If you download the festool operating manual you will see various max loads for the take off, and the UK 110v is just 500W :eek::eek:. This is because the vac is 1200W and anything over 500W exceeds the rating of the 16A plug (and poss the cable). Also, there have been some forum reports that the problems that have been reported with the festool Kapex "might" be caused by trying to pull too much through vacs take-offs and not getting the full voltage.

    However, there are also many reports with peeps using the "500W" rated 110v take-off well in excess of its rating without issues. There are also reports of festool reps saying that the the 500W limit can be exceeded (whether they ever write that down I don't know!!) Obviously a 16A plug on a 110v supply is capable of supplying quite a bit more juice, just as a 13A 230v plug will. (I managed to cut 3 bricks with a 230v 2600W diamond saw plugged in to an extension, before I realised I also had a 3kW fan heater on the same extension.........and the socket melted before the fuse popped!!)

    This whole mess is caused by the UK's insistence on 110v centre tapped supplies on construction sites, when EU uses 16A with 230V, providing around 3.6kW and allowing the same festool vac to advertise a 2400W power take off!!!

    The 230V Uk version advertises an 1800W take off limited by a 13A plug.

    A 2.5mm flex is specced to supply max 24-25A, which on 110V means a 1200W vac can have about a 1500W take off, BUT to pull 25A reliably you need a 32A 110v supply/plug!!

    download the manuals from here https://www.festool.co.uk/products/dust-extraction/mobile-dust-extractors/575264---ctl-midi-gb-110v and see for yourself!!
     
  6. Scott Green

    Scott Green Member

    I've got the dewalt m class vac, bit bulky but useful to use as a trolley, and the stack boxes can clip to it. The bosch one is a bit smaller but makes a wierd banging when self cleaning. There is a smaller metabo that one of our other lads have. Thats a bit cheaper too.

    Dont get the festool hype myself. Twice the price for the same thing
     
  7. Gavo 78

    Gavo 78 New Member

    Good insight mate much appreciated i only need as HSE are all over commercial jobs And don’t want to waste my hard earned on something that isn’t to spec or as compatible with TS55
     
  8. sospan

    sospan Well-Known Member

    The Festool extractors will happily run the TS55
     
  9. sospan

    sospan Well-Known Member

    Want prepared for the "banging" on EAC model !
     
  10. Scott Green

    Scott Green Member

    We only have them as we fit site kitchens and have to have them. We all run routers chop saw and plunge saws off the different vacs without any issues. Suppose it comes down to attachments fitting easily
     
  11. Mr Rusty

    Mr Rusty Well-Known Member

    Absolutely sure it does, but is it technically "OK". 1200W vac + 1200W Ts55 = 2400W = 22-23A, and the vac comes with a 16A rated plug............
     
  12. kitfit1

    kitfit1 Well-Known Member

    If it wasn't "OK" then Festool themselves wouldn't be allowed to sell the pair as "A Bundle" which they do of course.
     
  13. jimoz

    jimoz Member

    To be fair festool sell L class as suitable for woodwork when if you read hse rules then only m class sufficient?

    Got one of those m tuff jobbies recently just for a little commercial job. Did the job ok. Nowt special but it ticks the box. Just have to remember to turn on!
     
  14. Broon

    Broon Active Member

  15. Mr Rusty

    Mr Rusty Well-Known Member

    By "OK" I'm sure it works absolutely fine. However, as a product developer would I like to be in front of a CE Machinery Safety conformity person trying to explain why it's OK to sell something that draws 22A connected to a 16A rated plug. Or, come to that would you like to explain that one to your insurance company if it was your kit caused a problem.......

    As I said before it's a mess and a minefield. What works isn't necessarily in conformity of the correct ratings...

    Festool DO know it's out of order, or they wouldn't write "500W max" in their operating manual for the UK 110v PTO rating. They just hope that in real-world no-one notices or cares. This is actually an example of EU ignoring our rules, because we are different.
     
  16. Richard_

    Richard_ Active Member

    How on earth does this relate to the EU? The UK chooses to have it's own quirky system and you say our decision is somehow the fault of the bogeyman across the water?
     
  17. Wayners

    Wayners Active Member

    Mirka use nilfisk machines so they are good value and all that is different is the case and screwfix stock nilfisk.I have the festool CTl26 ac but it's not m class. The only difference is the m class has a bag full warning light so I understand. I bought mine off amazon but other festool stuff I used a 20% off ebay voucher from Ffx as they are the main suppliers of festool kit and have a ebay shop. Been a few 12 hour discount vouchers popping ups on ebay over the last few months so I bought another festool sander recently. I'm a sucker for a discount
     
  18. Mr Rusty

    Mr Rusty Well-Known Member

    No that misreads what I intended to say. As a UK manufacturer selling in to the EU I can assure you you have to to pedantically tick every box and comply with every standard, rule and reg. As kitfit says Festool package a 1200W TS55 and a 1200w Vac with PTO and supply a 16A 110v plug. To me that is ignoring our standards, whether it works or not, if the plug is certified to 16A that should be the maximum it should be used for. Nothing to do with our system being their fault.
     
  19. kitfit1

    kitfit1 Well-Known Member

    This discussion has come up before Rusty and i completely agree with your logic. I don't know if you work with these tools on a day to day basis, but generally on a building site or as is with me when fitting a kitchen, any saw is only used for a very short period of time. In the case of my Makita chop saw for instance, only seconds. Even the Bosch table saw we use is probably never running for more than half a min at any one time, the TS55 maybe 2 mins at most. Drawing more power through a plug than it was designed for should only be an issue if it is used continuously for long periods of time shurely ?
     
  20. Need a bigger hammer

    Need a bigger hammer Active Member

    God. I need to get to specsavers. I thought the post read as "M Class Extinction." I was all set to start digging a damn big survival hole...:eek:
     

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