Discussion in 'Electricians' Talk' started by Ieuan, Sep 11, 2017.
Hmm, I still need a little more convincing that they're supposed to be safer then.
I would worry unless your planning on pumping 70A + through one
I agree with you there Rulland.
On a commercial machine I have seen how the spring type maintenance free connectors have improved things. It was a problem with screw connectors, either you checked the torque on a regular basis and in the end a wire would neck off, or you didn't and some screw would become lose over time. Not sure why a screw becomes lose but they do, could be vibration or it could be warming and cooling. First saw the in line maintenance free in Algeria in 1980 working for a Dutch company so they have been around some time. It was a lot latter I saw them in panel wiring mainly in machines imported from Germany. In machines like batching plants where you have a mainly steel structure with loads of motors and so vibration plus temperature variation they have done as name suggests reduced maintenance and over the many years in use proved themselves to be good.
However not so sure with domestic that with a standard brick house and wood floors they are really required? But with some high rise flats I suppose little difference in construction to the batching plant so can't really have a general rule which does not consider all types of building construction.
But although with the batching plant we did in the maintenance actually check the tightness of screws, I have never seen where some one goes around a house and ever does that type of maintenance. In most houses the consumer unit which is very easy to access and test every screw has the same amount of maintenance to the old round junction box under the floor boards, that is zero. So if in a house you need maintenance free under the floor boards, then also need maintenance free in ceiling roses, sockets, and consumer units as they all get the same amount of maintenance.
Yes we are told do an EICR every 10 years, but this does not include testing screws are tight, it is not maintenance, so big question is why single out junction boxes for maintenance free when they get same maintenance as rest? First maintenance my dads house got, and I mean maintenance not running repairs or alterations after it was built in 1954 was in 2016 when it was re-wired, and there was the same access to wires under floor boards as to the consumer unit. There had been modifications with sockets added and consumer unit changed in 2004 to one with a RCD fitted, but this was not maintenance. There were still ceiling roses, light switches, and black Bakelite sockets which had never seen a screwdriver since the day they were fitted i.e. they had been maintenance free.
I like it ...and was having some Craic !
Agree Sen....I have found 30A Ashley JB's under floors, screwed to joists with clips on the cables which must have been there for 40 years...and the terminals are dead tight. I would not be concerned myself about using them in inaccessible places....in general.
I was just pointing out the British Standard MF specs, derating and applications, type testings etc. which may be needed to cover ones backside in the event of a fire/investigation etc.
The WAGOBOX junction box meet BS EN 60670-01 and BS EN 60670-22.
The WAGOBOX junction box is for use with 773 and 222 Series connectors.
I agree they "look " flimsy...but you guys have to use what's BS rated to cover yourselves no matter what we may 'think'.
For all practical applications I am sure any choc box would perform well and do what's required....but...that's not the same as compliance with the WAGO spec for type tested MF and BS applications.
I used to pack parachutes...never had one complaint !
Hopefully you packed the canopies for a slow opening otherwise they mightn't have been fit to complain!
You do make a good point other than our own houses and may be those of the family it is likely we would never know if a junction box failed. I moved jobs on a regular basis, OK with some I returned did nearly 5 years on the Falklands, but I was one of many electricians so if some thing I did went wrong there is a good chance I will never find out.
I may be wrong, again, here but the regs used to insist that the only connectors suitable for non accessible locations were soldered, brazed or crimped. Wago are push in connectors that rely on a barb and a spring to maintain contact, either of these parts could develop a fault, especially under loading. I might just be old fashioned.
You are correct about "used to". That isn't the case anymore though. They must be certified and carry the MF symbol, however.
You make an interesting point. I have seen a few failed junction boxes and have always assumed it was down to faulty installation. Maybe i'm wrong, maybe they genuinely fail in use. I guess somone somewhere must have some evidence that "new" is sufficiently better than "old" to be worth the change. I do somtimes wonder how much is change for changes sake
Thanks for the update on that, I would not use them on any circuit that carried significant current, but that is only my prejudice. I would continue to crimp.
The problem with crimps, as noted elswhere, is that when used on solid conducors they 'may' loosen when moved particularly on sockets/switches.
Having seen destructive testing on WAGO I am confident in their performace.(with derating allowed for)
But like most stuff I am always dubious about pushing anything to its stated limit for a prolonged time.
Clamping, crimping or screwing works, each has their benefits and pitfalls. Screwed and crimped connections can come loose or are not done up properly in the first place. Soldered connections, done properly, are arguably the best, but are more difficult to do right.
I think the Wago type connectors are the best all round solution currently, as they're simple to use, quick, are difficult to connect incorrectly (in other words fairly idiot proof) and are certified MF.
I remember the first time I used Wago's - easy to accept that they made good contact in housing, not so easy to accept that they would not start arcing with appreciable loads. Now I would use them anytime they are indicated and with complete confidence.
Took me a while to get used to them and accept the claims. Now, I am fully persuaded and committed.
I found them so damn easy to connect up, no fiddling with screws, grub screws and losing the damn things, trying to hold multiple wires in place while I tighten the little bug*ers up.
All good lads..
Your fitting a light got screws in your mouth,it bloody heavy your arms aching you nearly done and wire pops out of earth connector block aaaggghhh oh hang on I use wagos push, click light up done sparkies love them
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