Masons Mitre - trim worktop width before or after?

Discussion in 'Kitchen Fitters' Talk' started by yetanothermike, Nov 29, 2020.

  1. Hello All

    Yet another question on this great forum.

    I've got myself a decent router and laminte jig because I want to have a go at the MM.

    My tops are 600mm and the jig will handle that but what if I want to reduce the width to say 580mm? Or even scribe the back of the top to the wall.

    Do I do the MM joint first and then make the length cuts or the other way round?
     
  2. Jord86

    Jord86 Screwfix Select

    Scribe the tops to sit in their designated place then mitres.
     
  3. Cheers for the quick answer but my jig only has peg holes for fixed widths. So if I scribe before, how would the jig cope with non-standard width?
     
  4. Jord86

    Jord86 Screwfix Select

    Cut the female first, offer back in position and mark the male off the female, just use one peg on the jig to align the jig with the mark, clamp it tightly and rout away.
     
    yetanothermike likes this.
  5. Tilt

    Tilt Screwfix Select

    Just measure the difference off the peg.

    If your width of the male is to be 580 then set the jig for the female but slide off the pin by 20mm. Clamp then cut.

    I drilled a few different peg holes in mine to suit Ikea's and others different widths.
     
    yetanothermike likes this.
  6. So if I scribe/cut the worktops first, its really only the female I need to worry more about because obviously I'm doing the full end of the male however wide it is?

    Since I've not done one before and I don't mind how long it takes, is it even an option to mitre the 600mm tops first in the standard way according to my jig instructions? Then place in situ and scribe/cut the backs ?

    I definitely don't want to go against advice (hence my follow up post to ask), but I'm a bit nervous of doing my first masons mitre with non-standard width tops.
     
  7. Tilt

    Tilt Screwfix Select

    Yes, and yes, I think.....

    Are you reducing the width of both pieces.
    It is difficult for us to say without knowing your layout, including how many joints / pieces of worktop you have.

    Sounds like just one L shape??????? If so are these both open ended or to a wall end????
    Depends on layout as to where you (or I) would start.

    What sort of worktops? Normal post-formed (roll front) laminate???
     
    yetanothermike likes this.
  8. Thanks so much for quick reply.

    L Shape post-formed laminte. The female is inbetween two walls. The male has an open end at the other side from the join.
     
  9. Tilt

    Tilt Screwfix Select

    Ok, your thinking seems correct and you would usually cut the piece between the walls first.

    So by your asking I deduce you must be reducing the width of the piece of worktop with the (jokes aside) male 'butt' cut.

    So you cannot cut the female (scribe) until you know the finished width of the open ended, male 'butt' cut side :eek:

    As said earlier, just reduce the female (scribe) length of cut by the difference of the male width. Measure off the 600mm pin.

    I'm pretty sure you got it.
     
  10. Haha you have too much faith in my abilities! I've now got the female roughly in position just to have a look and play without cutting anything.




    lol but sadly my head can't get round that. If I cut and scribe the female against the wall first thats fine isn't it? Unless you mean I can't start routering the join with the jig until I've cut the male?


    So, have I got the following correct?:

    1/ Cut female to length then scribe the back of it to fit into the wall and leave required constant cupboard overhang
    2/ Cut male a little longer than required and also scribe it to the wall at the back
    3/ Measure the width of the male where it meets the female
    4/ Do the MM routering on the female but remove the 600mm pin and clamp it according to the width in step 3. Does it matter if I'm say 2mm out with the width here?
    5/ Do the MM routering on the male
    6/ Cut down the male butt cut side for length
    continue as normal, sealing, clamping etc.
     
  11. ginger tuffs

    ginger tuffs Screwfix Select

    before cutting down worktop have you allowed for door and draw fronts to your size
     
    yetanothermike likes this.
  12. Yep. And since I've had some pretty good help I've posted a pic but please go easy on me. I'm no kitchen fitter or carpenter that is obvious. (The oven is also due to go back 10mm).

    Do those steps above look OK or have I got Tilt's advice and others totally wrong?
     

    Attached Files:

    Jord86 and ginger tuffs like this.
  13. ginger tuffs

    ginger tuffs Screwfix Select

    its looking good
     
    yetanothermike likes this.
  14. Tilt

    Tilt Screwfix Select

    Well, if you've not done it already, and when you know the finished width of the 'male' piece, then take that finished width measurement (say 580mm, take it away from 600mm (your jig guide hole) so = 20mm, and cut a small piece of wood at that size (20mm) and then set up your jig with the pin in at 600mm but with the 20mm piece in between the pin and worktop end to cut the female (scribe) as perfect length as possible, if you are not too happy or confident measuring it...

    It is nice when you do not have to rush and you can do as perfect a job as possible...

    Just make sure you line your bolt holes up as adjusting the jig can alter these or make them too close to the front,
    If only 20mm scribed off then should be ok. Just double check first.
    Not sure if you are tiling.
     
    Last edited: Nov 30, 2020
  15. Wow thanks a lot Tilt! That makes perfect sense.

    I will be tiling above so a say 5mm gap would be ok I think.

    I shall either use a plastic packer or the end of some 4x2 that I've shaved off to the required depth (20mm in your example). But knowing me, it still won't be mm perfect so as you say I'll need to be careful about the bolt holes.

    If say I make an error with the joint of say 2mm (which hopefully I won't using your method) but say I do then that would mean the male and female not being perfectly flush along the back length of the male. So I was thinking to simply place my bolt jig in a sensible place (not hard up to the edge) and then draw a centre line which I'd transfer to the other worktop. THen transfer lines to the back and put my jig over those lines. Something like that anyway....
     
  16. Tilt

    Tilt Screwfix Select

    Two mm out will not affect the bolts but the 20mm difference can push them too close to the front edge but likely would be ok still if it was no more than 20mm.

    So yes, enjoy...........
     
  17. Well I was enjoying it until now....

    The dry fit looked ok to me but when I added the dog bone bolts and started tightening up I noticed it was pulling the male up (or the female down). If I left it it would create a "massive" ridge - maybe 2mm proud of the surface.

    I suspect the join being on a void wasn't helping so I added some conti blocks next to the female. It didn't seem to help though.

    Any ideas on how to keep the buggers flush with each other?
     

    Attached Files:

  18. Jord86

    Jord86 Screwfix Select

    Remove the blocks, Jigsaw and drill slots out to accommodate the bolts, then do them up gradually and tap the joint with a block of wood and a hammer to flush everything up. It's possible the tops could be bowed or your units not perfectly level with each other so you may have to pack the tops up to get the joint flush then lower back down once it's right.
     
  19. Tilt

    Tilt Screwfix Select

    @yetanothermike
    Sometimes propping them up from the other side, or part way along can help balance them, just for the purposes of getting the two pieces flush.

    If I cannot pack temporarily underneath, for this purpose. What I also do is push down on the raised piece with my left hand and tap the lower piece with a hammer from the underside.

    Tighten the bolts a little and do the above, then tighten a little more, and so on, until you are happy with the joint. Then fully tighten.
    If you need to close up the front then I use a chisel at the back of the male piece to prise it gently forward, prior to tightening the bolts.
     
  20. Tilt

    Tilt Screwfix Select

    Just looking at your pics
    I use a flat blade screwdriver to raise the lower bits if necessary, as a temporary packer on top of the units below.
    I also use a 10 mm halfords professional ratchet spanner which makes the job sooooooo much easier, Lol.

    Sometimes packing at the back, will actually lower it at the front, if it is balanced that way.
    As said, I use a hammer (ball pein / metal) underneath for the fine adjustments.
     

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