Metabo KGS255

Discussion in 'Carpenters' Talk' started by Dino101, Jun 4, 2008.

  1. uncle buck

    uncle buck New Member

    Yeah I agree, I think it will be the plus version with the laser.

    That said, I have just checked the SF spring 2008 catalogue & the saw is shown at the £289 price but there is no mention of a laser in the bold key features list just the "Fitted with laser flange as standard for more accurate cutting" in the description.
    I think it's safe to say that most people would assume from this that there was a laser fitted, so if you were to buy this saw & it didn't have the laser I think you would have very good grounds for complaint.

    I'm contemplating buying the Metabo but I noticed the Bosch PCM8S which looks a nice piece of kit.

    http://www.bosch-do-it.co.uk/boptocs2-uk/Product.jsp?country=GB&lang=en&division=hw&ccat_id=95291&objectid=9842

    I know the Bosch isn't a Blue professional version but I would imagine it will be as well made as they are & it's capacities are slightly better than the metabo @ 70mm depth & 282mm width.

    Hmmm...decisions... decisions...what do you think?
     
  2. evo nut

    evo nut New Member

    metabo

    3 year warrenty

    evo nut
     
  3. murrmac

    murrmac Member

    the Metabo has a more powerful motor as well.

    1300w v 1200w
     
  4. handymanforhire

    handymanforhire New Member

    With respect, I think if it had a laser fitted, you can bet that Screwfix (or any retailer) would mention it. If it has a laser flange, then it has a laser flange, which I would assume is a flat bit of metal you can mount a laser onto. Happy to be proved otherwise - if the laser's that important to you, why not 'phone the tech helpline and check?


    I'm contemplating buying the Metabo but I noticed the
    Bosch PCM8S which looks a nice piece of kit.

    http://www.bosch-do-it.co.uk/boptocs2-uk/Product.jsp?c
    ountry=GB&lang=en&division=hw&ccat<u>id=95291&object</u>id=
    9842


    Nothing wrong with Green Bosch for light use, but as others have said, the 3-year warranty on the Metabo would swing it for me...

    HTH, Pete.
     
  5. leicsjoiner

    leicsjoiner New Member

    Metabo do make nice stuff. I'm tempted to get one myself for that price.
     
  6. uncle buck

    uncle buck New Member

    With respect, I think if it had a laser fitted, you
    can bet that Screwfix (or any retailer) would mention
    it. If it has a laser flange, then it has a laser
    flange, which I would assume is a flat bit of
    metal you can mount a laser onto. Happy to be proved
    otherwise - if the laser's that important to you, why
    not 'phone the tech helpline and check?

    Hi,
    The saw is showing as "Back soon" so I guess they have sold them all. The 110v version is still available though & this looks like it's the plus version with the laser. There is a link on the page to the instructions & these are for the plus version so I would imagine the 240v saw would have been the same.

    http://www.screwfix.com/prods/84760/Power-Tools/Compound-Mitre-Saws/Metabo-KGS255-Mitre-Saw-110V

    Looking at the instructions, the "Flange laser" is fitted in the centre of the blade, it takes the place of the flange that holds the blade hence its name.
    So I think we can assume from this that when the description says "Laser Flange" it does actually mean the laser & not a flange to hold a laser.
     
  7. uncle buck

    uncle buck New Member

    Hi,
    I can confirm that the saw is the plus version with the laser as I have now got one.

    The laser is housed in the flange that holds the blade on, you wouldn't know it was in there as the flange is only about 10mm thick if that. The laser is powered by batteries (button cells) that are housed in the flange, & it is automatically switched on by a centrifugal switch when the blade spins....this is a poor idea as far as I'm concerned....but not as poor as the beam the laser produces....it may be great in a dimly lit workshop but if you are using the saw in good lighting conditions, which more than likely you will be, the beam is virtually impossible to see.
    You do get an ordinary flange so you can remove the laser flange if you want....it's as if they know it's cr@p!

    I know a few of you own a Metabo saw, but to be honest I'm not that impressed with this saw....the laser is rubbish....I find the handle of the saw quite awkward to use, I think it would have been a lot better if it was horizontal instead of vertical.
    The motor could have had a "soft start" instead of just bursting into life (even some of the cheap Chinese made saws have this), the finish of the saw looks quite good, however the blue plastic motor cover etc, looks very cheap & nasty. The mitre scale also looks cheap & nasty.

    The saw does however feel quite solid & there doesn't seem to be any play in the saw head or the sliding mechanism which is good. When the saw head is pulled forward to it's maximum there is a slight amount of flex on the saw head if you don't keep your hand steady, but I would imagine all sliding saws will display this to some extent as when extended the saw head is quite far from the support point of the rails....I guess it's just the nature of the beast.
     
  8. leicsjoiner

    leicsjoiner New Member

    So the laser only works with the blade running? Is it just me or is that a bad idea?
     
  9. murrmac

    murrmac Member

    I don't see that it is a bad idea, it doesn't cause any problems for me.

    I find it ironic that uncle buck sees problems with the saw in all the areas where imo there are no problems, but doesn't mention the one major design flaw to which I referred earlier in the thread.
     
  10. handymanforhire

    handymanforhire New Member

    Sorry to hear you're disappointed with your saw. If you're seriously unhappy with it, you can always return it. Just out of interest though, have you cut anything with it yet? Is it accurate? That would be my main concern...

    Ditto the laser - is it accurate? The small battery powered laser diodes used in saws and levels around this price-point aren't the most powerful and can be hard to see in bright conditions - a pair of red specs can sometimes help. And FWIW, no workshop should be 'dimly-lit' ;)

    The vertical handle is a pretty common design (makes it easily usable by both left and right-handed people) but if you're finding it awkward, try mounting the saw a little lower i.e. on a lower table or bench - works for me.

    Yes, a soft-start motor would be nice (as would variable speed and double-bevel...) but it has none of these, and as far as I'm aware wasn't advertised as such??

    As for the aesthetics of the motor-housing and the mitre-scale, well, that comes under personal preference I guess, and I'm really not sure how it could be made to look expensive and attractive, but I'd be happy to be advised if you have any ideas, lol?

    Seriously, if you don't think it's going to work for you, return it and get something else with your hard-earned cash, but as I said way back in this thread, I've had the Elektra-Beckum branded version for over four years (using it to earn my living) and I've found it to be excellent; I think you'll struggle to find something of comparable quality at this price-point.

    Best of luck in whatever you buy.

    @ murmac. What deficiency/design flaw? I've had one for over four years, and my only gripe with it is dust extraction which is generally a joke - as it is with all SCMS aside from the Kapex. Maybe it's something you see as a problem, but nobody else does??;)
     
  11. leicsjoiner

    leicsjoiner New Member

    Well, I just went out and bought the 303+ this morning and if the 255 is anything like that then it's a bit of a bargain for less than £200. Still going to take some getting used to with that laser only being on when the blade is running. I've got into the habit of dropping a timber onto the saw and lining up the cut line with the laser, fine tuning it as necessary as the blade comes down. Once I've got my eye in with it I guess it won't be such a big deal. Adjustable kerf plates would be nice though.
     
  12. uncle buck

    uncle buck New Member

    Hi,

    @ murrmac,
    I haven't used the saw to cut anything as I was just having a look to see if I liked it...if I use it I won't be able to return it if I decide it's not the saw for me...maybe this is how I haven't found the design flaw that you mention.

    Why not just tell us what it is!

    Opinions will always vary & I'm not just trying to bring the saw down....I'm just trying to be as honest as I can & express my first impressions of the saw.

    @ handymanforhire,
    As mentioned I haven't cut anything with it as I want the option of returning it....I checked it over & had a general look round it yesterday. I won't know if the laser is accurate unless I cut something. It has to be said that the laser system on this saw is a very poorly thought out design though....even with the blade spinning it can't project onto the work piece until the blade guard is retracted which only happens when you lower the saw head !
    Lasers on mitre saws are only a guide anyway & I would always prefer to do a lead in cut to make sure I was on the mark....but that's not really the point.

    Yeah the handle will be easier to use if the saw is lower....I had it on my work bench in the garage which is on top of old kitchen units so it was at about 3ft....lower will help....but I do find horizontal handle set ups to be a lot easier to use.

    No the saw wasn't advertised as having a soft start motor or variable speed or double-bevel....I was just pointing out that soft start motors are becoming common place on cheapo saws so one on this saw would have been nice.
    I take your point about the mitre scale & the plastic of the motor housing....I suppose I was being over critical on these, & yes for the price (£189.99 sale price) I suppose all things considered it is a good saw for the money, however if I had paid full price I would be very disappointed.
     
  13. jonm1959

    jonm1959 New Member

    just bought 110v kgs255 plus arrived today excellent saw ,very accurate straight out the box ,bargain for £189 has laser mounted in the blade flange
     
  14. uncle buck

    uncle buck New Member

    I find it ironic that uncle buck sees problems with
    the saw in all the areas where imo there are no
    problems, but doesn't mention the one major design
    flaw to which I referred earlier in the thread.

    Is the design flaw the pointer that is used for the bevel angle adjustment?...it's just that I noticed that it's quite thick so setting an accurate bevel angle is quite difficult.

    In my previous post I mentioned that you had to have the blade guard retracted to enable the laser to shine onto the work piece.....this is incorrect...the laser does shine through the blade guard as it has little holes cut into it....the laser shines through the holes & makes a series of broken lines on the work piece like this:
    _ _ _ _ _ _ _

    Once the blade guard is retracted the laser line becomes solid.
     
  15. murrmac

    murrmac Member

    >Is the design flaw the pointer that is used for the bevel angle adjustment?...it's just that I noticed that it's quite thick so setting an accurate bevel angle is quite difficult <

    no, this is not the design flaw to which I alluded.

    I don't think the KGS255 is any better or worse in this respect than any other make of mitre saw. They all require a trial cut or two to ensure accuracy, but that is true for bevel cuts on even the most expensive table saws, let alone mitre saws.

    It would be great if manufacturers could fit detents for bevel cuts similar to what they provide for the front mitre scale, (which is exceedingly accurate on the KGS255 btw) but I don't think this would be possible from an engineeering point of view.
     
  16. uncle buck

    uncle buck New Member

    > no, this is not the design flaw to which I alluded

    Thought I had it there...LOL


    > It would be great if manufacturers could fit detents
    for bevel cuts similar to what they provide for the
    front mitre scale, (which is exceedingly accurate on
    the KGS255 btw) but I don't think this would be
    possible from an engineeering point of view.


    The Dewalt DW712 has detents on the bevel settings.
     
  17. murrmac

    murrmac Member

    I stand corrected, uncle buck. And at less than £300, a miracle of engineering imo.

    for £100 less, however, I would still go for the KGS255 and spend a couple of minutes doing trial cuts.

    the KGS255 is spot on at 45 degrees on the bevel cut btw if you just slide it all the way down until it stops.

    I am <u>amazed</u> that nobody else has commented on the KGS255 design flaw which hits me right in the face ...
     
  18. leicsjoiner

    leicsjoiner New Member

    Can't speak for the 255, but the 303 suffers from non-existent cable mangement, just leaving the power cable to flop out of the saw head and dangle right where you'll eventually trap it between the sliding bearing housing and the end stop. Zip ties to the rescue. By the way, the 303 also has detents on the bevel at 90, 22.5 and 45 degrees. The 48 degree bevel capacity is a major bonus too.
     
  19. uncle buck

    uncle buck New Member

    > I am <u>amazed</u> that nobody else has commented on
    the KGS255 design flaw which hits me right in the
    face &#133;


    I&#146;m going to have another try at guessing....LOL...

    Is it the fact that there is no way to use the &#150; 2° bevel angle without moving the adjusting screw that gives the positive 45° stop?

    Or is it the spindle lock button?....when using the saw it's possible your finger could catch it...not enough to engauge it but enough to annoy you!


    > By the way, the 303 also has detents on the
    bevel at 90, 22.5 and 45 degrees. The 48 degree bevel
    capacity is a major bonus too.


    Nice to know that it's not just Dewalt that have thought about the bevel detents. The 303 looks like a very good saw...double bevel etc....very nice.
     
  20. murrmac

    murrmac Member

    oh well, since you are twisting my arm, I will reveal all...

    if all you require of the KGS255 is the facility to crosscut timber accurately, either square or at an angle, then there is no design flaw, it is a brilliantly designed and beautifully constructed machine which will serve you well.

    it is when you come to use the trenching (or "dadoing", but I shall call it "trenching") facility that the machine falls short.

    the reason it falls short is that it takes for ever to set the threaded depth stop to the correct depth, then, once it is set and you have cut your trench you have to unwind the depth stop back again to make your parting cut.

    as I say, if you never use this facility it is not a problem, but if like me, you cut trenches all the time (mainly in CLS ) then it is extremely frustrating, particularly if you want to replicate the same trench depth more than once.

    other mitre saws I have used, Makita and Dewalt use a flipstop arrangement so that you can set the depth of trench, cut it and then flip the depth stop up to enable the parting cut.

    the irony is that the Metabo is actually a much better engineered saw and the play in the slides is much less than in the Makita and Dewalt saws that I have used, and with a decent depth stop it would be up to cabinet making standard, far less the site work that I use it for.

    I have , after much cogitation and expenditure of mental energy, come up with a solution to this problem, which I shall be marketing very soon.

    I am under no illusions that this will be any road to riches, and indeed there may be nobody else who is concerned about it, or at any rate concerned enough to pay for a solution, but it will be an interesting exercise to find out.
     

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