monsoon pump problems

Discussion in 'Plumbers' Talk' started by jon321, Apr 27, 2020.

  1. jon321

    jon321 New Member

    Hi - I have a Stuart Turner monsoon 3 bar twin pump for the shower which hums, gets warm does not pump.
    a bit of history pump was working when we first moved into our bungalow and it was situated under the bath panel (previous owners bodge) with the power cable running through the wall on a plug to the nearest socket.
    I removed the pump to where the airing cupboard is and situated the pump on the floor and re plumbed the bathroom.
    I can easily rotate the pump so it is not seized water does flow to the mixer bar on the shower all the pump does is hum and get warm as I said earlier - obviously I haven't ran it since as not to damage it any further.

    can anyone give me any pointers

    Jon
     
  2. Richardalockwood

    Richardalockwood New Member

    is water getting to the pump? Have you confirmed this?
     
  3. andy48

    andy48 Screwfix Select

    If it hums, gets warm but doesn't rotate it is probably the start capacitor. If rotating but not pumping, vanes may have sheared.
     
  4. just pumps

    just pumps Screwfix Select

    Just to be clear, it was working when it was under the bath but hasn`t worked since it was moved, is that correct.
    How far away from the bath is the airing cupboard and is it on the same floor/ level.
    Check all electrical connections, have you clamped down on an outer sheath rather than the exposed wires somewhere.
     
  5. jon321

    jon321 New Member

    Right first of all - Thank you for your replies so far.

    Richard - yes water is definitely getting to the pump.
    Andy - will bear this in mind on the capacitor - it is not rotating.
    Just Pumps - yes it was working it is on the same level electricity is definitely getting to the motor - it is now located approx 4 to 5 metres away.

    However I think I may know the error of my ways.

    would the pump not rotate if there is too much incoming pressure ?

    when I found the pump the cold supply was from the tank in the loft - when I re installed it in the airing cupboard just after the water meter previous owners had a tap which I then "tapped" into therfore the cold is getting the mains pressure and not the pressure from the water tank - if this makes sense.

    as another side note - the pump when I removed it did not get installed for about another year (previous shower bodge from previous owners was leaking for 12 yrs and had to rebuild the floor) would the time frame cause any damage to the pump ?

    Thank you for your help so far

    Jon
     
  6. terrymac

    terrymac Screwfix Select

    Cold should be from the tank ,not the mains. Re plumb it.
     
    Heat likes this.
  7. jon321

    jon321 New Member

    Hi Terry - that is what I am thinking - so the cold water pressure at the moment is too much, where as the hot water from the tank is not as much pressure?

    jon
     
  8. terrymac

    terrymac Screwfix Select

    You may have another issue with the pump that's not related ,but its designed to pump hot and cold at balanced pressures from storage.
     
  9. jon321

    jon321 New Member

    Thanks terry obviously now thinking about it the pressures are not balanced
    I will re plumb it - fortunately not a big job and will not be noticeable

    Jon
     
  10. jon321

    jon321 New Member

    Right as an update the pump has the hot and cold feeds from their respective tanks - cold tank in the loft hot tank in the airing cupboard about 1mtr above the pump.
    obviously the cold water pressure is a lot from when is was on the direct mains.
    However the pump still hums.

    as another side note to the last one when I did disconnect the pump from the water 12months + ago, I didnt drain any thing off so they may well have been a little water in the pump and we are in a hard water area if this helps with problem solving ?

    so my dilemma is do I pay out for parts to repair or just buy another pump say salamander which to be fair would probably be the same price of the parts?

    Jon
     
  11. just pumps

    just pumps Screwfix Select

    Easy enough to see if the pump has seized or not, also easy to check the capacitor visually and if you haven't done it check the electrical connections.
     
  12. Mike58

    Mike58 Screwfix Select

    Silly question, but have you got input and output the right way round?
     
  13. jon321

    jon321 New Member

    Mike not a silly question - there is arrows on the side pointing upwards which I am thinking is the output
    Jon
     
  14. Mike58

    Mike58 Screwfix Select

    The output side should have an arrow and also the flow switch is clamped to it.

    What is te age of the pump - there should be a code on the label and they have, I believe, a 5 year warranty.

    If you cannot get it to work - call Pump Assist at Stuart Turner and see what they have to say.
     
  15. just pumps

    just pumps Screwfix Select

    There was a recent post on a forum re these pumps where the problem turned out to be that somebody had removed and replaced an end cap and overtighted it.
     
  16. jon321

    jon321 New Member

    Right as a update - took the pump away from water and removed one side to see if the motor was seized which to be fair it doesn't free spin, there is a little resistance but it is not solid.
    so I looked at this youtube video here and within the first 2 minutes the guy says to bridge the incoming live with the wire terminal marked M which basically bypasses the sensors.
    so if it was good it should run.
    so I bridged the live with the M terminal and turned it on at a safe distance of course and it still hums which the chap says if it still hums its either the start capacitor or a seized motor.
    now as I said earlier there is a little resistance but not solid - I am swaying towards the capacitor.

    thanks for your help so far

    Jon
     
  17. just pumps

    just pumps Screwfix Select

    It wont spin freely like a fan. A duff capacitor usually had a spit or a bulge in the side, top or bottom.
    You could wire it up again and flick the impeller with a piece of wood but only let it run for a couple of seconds
     
  18. andy48

    andy48 Screwfix Select

    Capacitors don't need to show external damage to be faulty.
    They are mostly electrolytic capacitors. The dielectric is a very thin layer of aluminium oxide. This is renewed when a voltage is applied, and can degenerate when no voltage is applied for some time.
    The capacitor is used to create a phase difference between two motor windings, creating an artificial second phase and making the motor turn. Without that phase, the motor won't turn, and the mains passing through the main winding will a) make the motor hot, AND b) make the laminations hum.
    If it is the capacitor at fault you will need to replace with one suitable for use on AC, with a very near capacitance rating and a voltage rating no less than the existing one. Allowing for peak voltage on 230V RMS this needs to be a rating of around 360 volts or more. Look up motor run capacitors and have a look at https://capacitor-shop.co.uk/produc...f-mfd-st-17670-240v-pf-shower-pump-capacitor/
     
  19. jon321

    jon321 New Member

    thanks for the replies:
    Just pumps - there is no bulging/splits however at the terminal points (4 off) there does appear a little brown staining as they enter the body of the capacitor nothing much though.
    Andy48 - I put my multi meter on the terminals and it would appear with no electricity turned on that they are contacted together (cant think of the word at the moment.

    I have ordered a new one from aqauplumb total cost with 48hr delivery £16

    Jon
     
  20. jon321

    jon321 New Member

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