Moving downstairs toilet - currently not in the centre

Discussion in 'Plumbers' Talk' started by Folem001, Aug 30, 2021.

  1. Folem001

    Folem001 New Member

    Hi All,

    I'm re-doing the downstairs toilet.

    So far I've:
    Ripped out the old toilet suite and sink.
    Re-routed the CH feed and return from upstairs to come through the garage and through the back wall of the toilet - and I'm going to bury them in the screed (boxed in access for the joints - Speedfit to copper). This used to come down in the kitchen, but I re-routed temporarily when replacing the kitchen via this new shorter route, and now making it permanent.
    Re-plastered the walls and ceiling - with 1 still to go, once I've finalised what I'm doing in the room.

    One major thing that's bugging me is that the room is 800mm wide, but the toilet waste is not centred (see centre line in photo).

    I'd like to re-centre if possible, but was wondering if there's anything better/easier I can do to save the hassle of digging up the concrete and messing around with joining to the old pipes. I'm planning on boxing in the cistern and having a back to wall toilet, with a button flush on the boxed in section. Currently the distance from the wall to the soil pipe centre is 220mm. I've not yet looked to check what's possible with his distance for boxed in cistern and back to the wall toilet - fingers crossed I can do this!

    If there are adapters, I'm also not sure how to join to the current clay waste pipe. It seems to be a little bit damaged where the current plastic toilet waste feeds into it (see photos).

    Open to all suggestions and not afraid of getting stuck in - I'd prefer to do this the 'correct' way.

    I've also attached a photo of where the toilet waste goes (just under the LHS wall) into a chamber in the garage. The sink waste is concreted in, and there is no vent at all. I've guessed that's why the sink trap used to gurgle sometimes. If someone can point me to the correct practice for this, I've seen things mentioned such as AAVs, but unsure where I would place (hopefully I wouldn't have to have this on show). Similarly not afraid of digging up in the garage if necessary.

    Since this house was built in 1969, it appears each owner has bodged whatever they have had done - I'm on a journey to put right whatever I can.

    Many thanks in advance for any responses/help.

    Screenshot_20210829-170602_WhatsApp.jpg 20210829_114816.jpg 20210829_163454.jpg 20210829_163306.jpg Screenshot_20210830-060801_Gallery.jpg
  2. Bob Rathbone

    Bob Rathbone Screwfix Select

    Mike, before we start with the toilet, that CH pipe is in poor condition and in a place that the pan fixing screws could puncture it. If all of the CH plumbing is set in concrete like this, expect leaks in the near future.
    Now for the toilet. You have recognised the bodges of the past so try not to add to the list. As the soil pipe runs to the left I would dig it up and shorten it to leave it central to the room, it is the easiest and correct method. The pipework for the sink drain needs sorting, it's a bit complex for the job.
    fff and Folem001 like this.
  3. Folem001

    Folem001 New Member

    You're spot on about the CH pipework. I've replaced all upstairs and downstairs is next on the list. We had a leak in the hallway last year which I had to dig up to fix until we replace all downstairs.

    Thanks for the advice on the toilet waste - I felt digging and changing was the correct method, there was just a part of me that couldn't be bothered...but it will be worth it in the end.

    Yep - the sink pipework that runs into the garage is all a mess. It combines the washing machine, sink and condensate from the boiler. It's another one on the job list...!

    Thanks again for the advice.
  4. Folem001

    Folem001 New Member turns out I was wrong about the toilet waste going to the left into the garage! I've taken the existing toilet adaptor off and the waste pipe just goes straight down for at least 6ft!

    My issue is now I will have to use some adapters to get it to the centre, but I will have to have a large boxed in section as the toilet waste will stop the toilet going back very far. Unless I'm missing something obvious?
    It's a pain as it's a very small room and the toilet will now almost be in the middle of the room.

  5. FlyByNight

    FlyByNight Screwfix Select

    Folem001 and pppmacca43 like this.
  6. pppmacca43

    pppmacca43 Super Member

    If u can, u could cut the pipe flush to the floor then use an offset drain connector. This then takes a piece of 110mm pipe that a pan connector fits in to. Will only get you 40mm across though. Similar to what FlyByNight is saying but i think he may have meant the offset pan connectors:)

    Attached Files:

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  7. FlyByNight

    FlyByNight Screwfix Select

    Yes, I was referring to the pan connector - had forgotten McAlpine also do teh drain version too. But they are only 14mm

    With te drain connector, I would suggest going dwn deep enough so the top of that connector is just under floor level - it would look nicer. If more than 40mm is required then an offset drain for 14mm and an offset pan tweak to get from 20-40 - and between them it should do it
    Folem001 likes this.
  8. pppmacca43

    pppmacca43 Super Member

    The only thing with the offset pan connector into a bend is how far that pushes the pan out.
    Didn’t realise it was only 14mm, hardly worth it is it.
    Wonder if a short flexi might just do it, wouldn’t wanna be digging it out if I could help it

    Attached Files:

    Folem001 likes this.
  9. Folem001

    Folem001 New Member

    Do you think I'll be able to get a toilet back far enough?

    I've attached a quick drawing of the room dimensions.

    I've read a lot of bad things about using a flexi - but not ruling it out. Just struggling to see what will work here (and is the right thing to do!).

    Thanks so much for all the input so far - really appreciated.

  10. just pumps

    just pumps Screwfix Select

    Have you looked at bottom exit toilet pans? I`m in the same camp as you, seeing as you`ve come so far it seems a real shame to use a flexi when you just can do a job that will last.
  11. Folem001

    Folem001 New Member

    I'd love to, but won't be able to get a bottom pan in the centre of the room...I don't think?
  12. pppmacca43

    pppmacca43 Super Member

    Where have u read these bad things, On here? Nothing wrong with flexis, the mcalpine ones are excellent quality. There is one person on here who badmouths flexis and goes out of his way to put people off using them as he has above, but apart from that most people understand they have there uses.
    And as for flexis lasting they will last for years and years, what a ridiculous thing to say they won’t. They are much better quality now than the poor quality ones you would see twenty years ago.
    Folem001 likes this.
  13. pppmacca43

    pppmacca43 Super Member

    This stupid argument comes up time and time again. It would be ridiculous to dig your floor up ‘if’ a flexi would do the job. You will risk cracking the clay each time u dig more out
    Folem001 likes this.
  14. Folem001

    Folem001 New Member

    Great, so sounds like using a flexi is an option. I'm all for it as it seems like one of my only options.

    However, I'm really struggling to see toilets where I'd be able to push them back enough, so the toilet isn't in the middle of the room with a boxed in section 300mm deep. It seems like they would be on top of the waste pipe in the floor. Maybe I just have to live with the toilet being further into the room, but at least it would be in the centre?!
  15. pppmacca43

    pppmacca43 Super Member

    Depends whether u can get the correct centre height with the flexi, it will be tight. I’ve not used the one with the jubilee but that says 170mm at its smallest I think, so may work.
    So your other options in regards to the toilet sticking out would be to obviously dig up the floor, Or I would build a boxing the width of the gap and higher than the cistern and tile or paint it with a shelf on the top, u can push your toilet in dry so you can get a finished measurement for what the boxing needs to be. That’s assuming a close coupled toilet. You could of course use a back to wall pan and concealed cistern in a boxing.
  16. Folem001

    Folem001 New Member

    Will definitely be going for concealed cistern. My concern is will the back of the pan be wide enough to accept the pipe at the angle. I'm guessing not and that the back to wall pan will just sit a bit more into the room than I would have preferred.
    Toilet waste.jpg
  17. pppmacca43

    pppmacca43 Super Member

    If u get a back to wall pan where the spigot is set well inside the pan, and then u may get away with using a long straight flexi pan connector
  18. just pumps

    just pumps Screwfix Select

    Down tiger and time to face facts. I am not alone in advising against the use of flexi pipes on UK based plumbers forums offering help to posters. I wouldnt say I badmouth the use of them either, merely I say use solid if you can even if the job takes longer because to do it right means to do it once not do it it every seven years (on average) and yes we clash because on almost every post such as this you jump right in shouting use a flexi, quick, cheap and easy!

    I sometimes wonder, not that it is any of my business of course just how often you are called back to replace a flexi that you used but of course there is the possibility that you never hear of these cases.

    In the current post on moving the pan slightly to one side I fear the flexi will be under severe strain and may even leak over time so I suggested digging down a little more and clay pipes can be repaired but hey you know what, there is a flexi for that!

  19. Folem001

    Folem001 New Member

    When you say digging down a bit more...I can't dig it all the way out. So do you mean dig down, say about 6 - 12 inches, and use something like 2 45s with a bit of pipe between to join them, and bring it up to the centre of the room (see attached crude drawing). Then re-concrete and it's ready to go?

    I was originally thinking of doing this above ground, but makes sense if I can re-centre like this.


    Screenshot_20210830-200923_Samsung Notes.jpg
  20. just pumps

    just pumps Screwfix Select

    Yes I was thinking along those lines however below ground work is out of my comfort zone but there others here who can offer expert advice if you can wait. Or repost the last sketch in building work sub forum if nobody picks up on it here.

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