Moving phone socket

Discussion in 'Electricians' Talk' started by FadBurty, Jan 10, 2021.

  1. FadBurty

    FadBurty Member

    Hi all,

    I have a phone socket in the living room which is quite visible, I want to extend the wire and move the socket somewhere discreet.

    What would be the best way of achieving this?

    I have some of the following ideas:

    Disconnect phone socket, and put a junction box there and have a new wire coming from this to the discreet place and install the phone socket?

    Also can someone provide a link to the wire I need? Is it a ADSL or can I use cat 6? Ideally something that isn't thick so I can put it under the carpet?

    Any pointers would be helpful. Thanks
     
  2. MGW

    MGW Screwfix Select

    The master socket normally belongs to the phone line provider and in theory can't be moved. There is normally a provision to extend from them, in a way that the extensions can be disconnected for testing. The cable from the master socket is twisted pairs, the twisting matches the capacitance so they cancel each other out, and that will be at a set frequency, with phone this was not really that important, but with data it can be critical. The problem is as DIY people we don't have the equipment to test it, so if we have a problem we unplug the extensions and see if the problem goes before calling the service provider, who will in turn likely call OpenReach. And if the problem is internal in house we get charged.

    So easy enough to install telephone cable and extend throughout the house, but that master socket should not be moved. Yes many of us do move it, but you need to be aware of problems. Clearly some type of junction box, but you only need one twisted pair to the master socket, after the master you should have two twisted pairs, the second one allows the bell to ring on the phone, however very few people still use phones with bells powered by the batteries in the exchange. So getting the pair wrong way around, or missing out second pair will not affect the extension, but picking up one wire from one pair and another wire from another pair will.

    It is not CAT cable, it is telephone cable, CAT cable is used after the modem.
     
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  3. Dave_C

    Dave_C Member

    How many phone sockets do you have in your house? Is this the first (master) socket, and can you trace the cable from where it enters your house (either underground or from a overhead pole) ?

    "Telephone cable" is CW1308 and is also known as "CAT3" - google will find you many suppliers. It comes with different numbers of twisted pairs, from 2 upwards (you only need one). There's no problem using a higher category cable if you want, but as MGW says, the important thing is to put both connections in the same twisted pair. You could use a BT80A junction box.

    You may find this video useful (the presenter has made a whole set of videos on home telephone/broadband cabling and sockets):



    But consider what MGW said - the cabling up to and including the master socket belongs to BT, and you may have problems if you modify it and then have a fault.
     
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  4. FadBurty

    FadBurty Member

    Hey guys thank you for taking the time out to reply. Apologies I should have mentioned initially that this isn't a master socket - this will remain in its place in hallway.

    I had another socket which I assume is coming from the master socket into this phone socket in the living room. Ideally I just want it moved so it is discreet.

    I was trying to think of an efficient manner to extend this phone line either by a junction box or any other means possible that maybe kindly recommended to me.
     
  5. FadBurty

    FadBurty Member

    I can see jelly crimp is an alternative

     
  6. FadBurty

    FadBurty Member

  7. Dave_C

    Dave_C Member

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  8. FadBurty

    FadBurty Member

    Hi,

    Please find attached picture of the socket that I would like to move. I do have a IDC connector extend and have the following wire

    https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/303813387869

    I hope this helps to advise. Thanks
     

    Attached Files:

  9. FlyByNight

    FlyByNight Well-Known Member

    Can you trace the wire back to the master? If so, can you re-run that wire from the master to the new location. Much easier and more discreet than putting a junction in.

    That wire will be fine - depending on the phone you are connection you may need pins 2 & 5 or if ring is required 2, 3 & 5. Copy the colours from what is there to the junction box which you can move back along the wire to a hidden location.


    To add: That existing cable is almost certainly NOT phone cable, so you may well be best tracing back to the master and running new.
     
    Last edited: Jan 13, 2021
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  10. FadBurty

    FadBurty Member

    Unfortunately I won't be able to trace it all the way back to the master socket to confirm this as there's too many obstacles involved.

    Apologies the existing cable in the phone socket isn't a phone cable? If you don't mind me asking how were you able to tell? Only reason I ask we did have a phone connected to this socket years ago and it was fine. Be interesting to understand your point further. (Maybe because of the color of the wires you were able to confirm that?)
     
  11. FlyByNight

    FlyByNight Well-Known Member

    Yes, down to colours.

    Internal Cw1308 will have Blue with White bands (Bl/W) and White with Blue bands (Wh/Bl), and the same with Orange - Or/Wh & Wh/Or and if 3 or 4 pair Green (Gn/Wh & Wh/Gn) plus Brown (Bn/Wh & Wh/Bn)

    External drop wire (2 pair) is usually Orange & White and Black & Green.

    Your Green, Blue, Orange, Brown does not match any of them and even internal phone cord is different.

    Ideally they should be a twisted pair and there is no suggestion about what you have there. Take it as far back as you can before putting the junction box on. Use 2 - Bl/Wh, 3 - Or/Wh & 5 Wh/Bl.
     
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  12. Banallsheds

    Banallsheds Well-Known Member

    Blue, green, orange, and brown is the old standard before the stripy cable was introduced around 30 years ago.
     
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  13. Rulland

    Rulland Screwfix Select

    Do not put under a carpet, eventually it will fail, even if it's at the edge by any grippers.
    Seen this so many times being in the security industry.
     
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  14. FadBurty

    FadBurty Member

    Thanks for the reply. The cable I have has the following colors;

    Orange
    White and orange
    Blue
    White and blue.

    I understand the existing wires follow the old convention that has the following

    2 - Blue
    3 - Green
    5 - Orange

    The new wire would go in the junction box as
    2 - Blue 5- orange. But what wire would be for the corresponding green?
     
  15. Rulland

    Rulland Screwfix Select

    You don't need to use 3.
     
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  16. FlyByNight

    FlyByNight Well-Known Member

    You do need three - how else do some phone get their ring signal? Through the third ring wire.
     
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  17. Rulland

    Rulland Screwfix Select

    Google it, these days 3 is redundant.
     
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  18. FlyByNight

    FlyByNight Well-Known Member

    No it is not. You tell me how a phone gets the ring signal, yes some now work on two but there are hundreds of thousands if not millions in use which require three wire and WILL NOT RING without a connection on pin 3.

    And when someone calls to say "my phone does not ring" when plugged into an extension, the answer is often, because someone cut a corner and missed out one wire. Look at a modern BT master front plate, how many connection for an extension does it have? THREE

    And I have dealt with several over the past few days.
     
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  19. Banallsheds

    Banallsheds Well-Known Member

    Both your orange and blue wires will have thin white stripes on them. Look closely.

    The correct connections are with modern cable is:

    2. Blue with thin white stripes
    3. Orange with thin white stripes
    5. White with thin blue stripes
     
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  20. FadBurty

    FadBurty Member

    I understand the existing wires follow the old convention that has the following

    2 - Blue
    3 - Green
    5 - Orange

    I will connect the above to the junction box in that order. However for the new wires what number corresponds to the above 2- blue and 5 - orange what corresponds to the green...?
     

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