MyBuilder - a ranch for cowboys?

Discussion in 'Electricians' Talk' started by Comlec, Nov 9, 2021.

  1. Comlec

    Comlec Screwfix Select

    This notification popped up in an email from MyBuilder.

    upload_2021-11-9_11-1-40.png

    Now this is something we all know cannot be done, yet five contractors replied to the post with one being shortlisted! Needless to say three of the contractors were NICEIC Approved Contractors.

    I don't know why I pay my annual fees.
     
    Redseven likes this.
  2. Tony Goddard

    Tony Goddard Screwfix Select

    You and me both Com, remember that aside from you and me as responsible contractors most of the cowboys are also NICEIC members.
     
    Sparkielev likes this.
  3. Comlec

    Comlec Screwfix Select

    However, I pay mine to NAPIT for CPS and an addition fee so I can carry out Third Party Inspections.

    And just paid my IET fees for the year too!
     
  4. spannerw

    spannerw Screwfix Select

    Excuse my ignorance, I know nothing about electrikery, why can’t it be done?
     
    GoldenArches likes this.
  5. Tony Goddard

    Tony Goddard Screwfix Select

    Only the person who does the work can issue a certificate and put through the notification, least thats how it is with the NICEIC - I know Napit do the third party thing Com refers to, not sure how it works though, hopefully he will fill us in!!
     
    GoldenArches likes this.
  6. Comlec

    Comlec Screwfix Select

    If the homeowner is having electrical work (requiring notification) carried out by a contractor who is not registered to self-certify, then the homeowner can engage a third party certifier before work starts. The third party certifier can then check that both BS7671 and the applicable building regulations are complied with as the work progresses and submit a Part P notification once the work is complete.
    Full details can be found here —> https://www.napit.org.uk/schemes/third-party-certification.aspx

    If work has been completed but not notified to the LABC (Local Authority Building Control) then the only route open to the homeowner is a process called regularisation.
    Here is an example of a form to a LABC —> https://www.hertsmere.gov.uk/Docume...ilding-Regularisation---electrical-safety.pdf
    Once an application is made and the fee paid the LABC will then inspect the installation or more than likely sub-contract an approved inspection company to inspect and report on the work. The inspection is essentially an EICR with the scope being the works completed eg single storey extension. The big difference is that the inspector has to apply the version of BS7671 that was in force at the time the work was carried out. It is usual for the company carrying out the inspection to be prohibited from carrying out remedial works.
    If remedial works are required then they should be completed by a contractor who can issue appropriate certificates(EIC or MWC) to demonstrate that the remedial work has been carried. This together with the specialist EICR will be accepted by the LABC and the appropriate building certificates issued.

    The cost and grieve that homeowners suffer as result of missing bits of paper should not be underestimated. I feel really sorry for them as it is very rarely their fault for the predicament they find themselves in, usually as they are trying to move house.
     
    Last edited: Nov 9, 2021
    spannerw and Tony Goddard like this.
  7. spannerw

    spannerw Screwfix Select

    Blimey that’s complicated !! Thank you for explaining tho. Good job I don’t touch it, it’s all voodoo to me!!
     
  8. Tony Goddard

    Tony Goddard Screwfix Select

    Yes, thanks for the info there Com, interesting, maybe time to move to NAPIT, question is do you have issues with people not knowing who they are, unfairly some specify NICEIC, which to my mind is wrong.
     
    ElecCEng likes this.
  9. ElecCEng

    ElecCEng Screwfix Select

    Is it any coincidence that the certification required (EIC, EICR) shares 3 initials with the NIC…

     
  10. Tony Goddard

    Tony Goddard Screwfix Select

    Good observation!!

    I have nothing against the NICEIC, but I do feel that they have carefully crafted the impression that they are an organisation like Gas Safe which is the only state sponsored CPS, the whole Electrical Safety Council name makes it sound somehow a state run thing.

    To my mind there should be a dual emblem like the calibration firms have with the UKAS tick logo that is displaed next to theirs showing they are accredited by the state same with the BASEC kitmark cable manufacturers use, so you would have a state CPS emblem issued to any scheme operator who is currently approved.

    But it won't change, its run and run since part p came in!!
     
  11. Comlec

    Comlec Screwfix Select

    You should look at the history of the NICEIC and the changes to the organisational structure and legal form to see its transformation from a charity to a commercial organisation paying some of its employees a handsome remuneration. I am sure the NICEIC or Certsure to give them their real name would love to be a state approved monopoly regulating the electrical trade and funded by it members who have no option other than to join.
    Not sure if NAPIT are any better or worse.
     
    Sparkielev likes this.
  12. MGW

    MGW Screwfix Select

    If there was only one it would come under the same rules as removed the Union closed shop system, if only one it would be a closed shop Union so would be unlawful.

    As it stands the scheme providers are not permitted to tell each other if the expel anyone for poor workmanship.

    As to MyBuilder or any other system to find work for tradesmen, I would as a home owner use them as last resort, my be wrong, but it seems there is a shortage of tradesmen, and if a tradesman has to use some thing like MyBuilder to get work, I ask why? It may be they have only just moved into the area and have not as yet built up a reputation for being a good tradesman, or it could be they are not a good tradesman and no one will use them twice.

    It does not matter what the trade is, if you find you got a poor tradesman with MyBuilder and they were unable or unwilling to do anything about it, then you say not using them again. So finding out any tradesman uses MyBuilder, Checkatrade, or any other group can work against them.

    However if I look at the work description the words "to issue" is clearly wrong, no engineer unless in the employ of local authority building control or scheme provider can issue the compliance or completion certificate. However they can do the work required to arrange for one to be issued, be it fill in the forms to get the LABC to do it, or scheme provider to do it, they can arrange it.

    It would depend if the electrical work had been started or not, if already started the LABC route is only one open. But clearly one would need a lot more information to quote for work as whole, it would need to be itemised.

    So multiple appliances or full property I would read as want PAT testing rates and EICR rates. I have never had to quote so would assume it would be on a win some loose some basis.

    So 5 minutes per plug in item, so need to travel so first x items £y and all after £z. Non plug in item on application. Final circuits not over 40 amp £a per circuit, non final circuits on application. Clearly you must have the on application as although a batching plant may technically be a portable appliance it is not going to be tested in a day, never mind how many in a day, and I know hand driers caused me problems to test, where really it needed locking off or two people. Same with things like supplies to outbuildings, clearly not one circuit in the way we would count it for pricing the work.

    But we have to realise building managers don't always know the right name for things, it may be that the work want is for some one to issue completion or compliance certificates, but the "multiple appliance" makes me think simple PAT testing (Inspection and testing of in-service electrical equipment) and EICR (PIR) the point is you can't have a legal binding contract to do some thing illegal, so if it turns out they want some one to say they did work they didn't do, then there is no contract.
     
  13. The Happy Builder

    The Happy Builder Screwfix Select

    The “I” in NICEIC stands for Inspection.

    Originally the NICEIC Inspector arrived with a set of calibrated testers and carried out an inspection of the contractors work, including testing it.

    Now the contractors work is no longer inspected and tested, the contractors are assessed for competence.

    It’s a whole different ballgame.
     
  14. Comlec

    Comlec Screwfix Select

    Sure is
    Now the “I” in NICEIC stands for Income
     
    longboat likes this.
  15. ElecCEng

    ElecCEng Screwfix Select

    On the subject of the post. Did a job last week for a client whose plasterer was obtained through the website in question. I’ve never had to bite my tongue so hard as he drove non-cutting 150mm screws straight through 75mm wet sawn timber, into the ceiling joists above. Blind, straight through the existing plaster. Every 3 or 4 he’d stop and have to wait for his single, tiny battery to recharge for 30 min. No ear defenders for his impact driver. Ran my new cables through the ‘joists’, explained to the lad exactly where they were and went home after a very long afternoon.

    Next day I gets a phone call from the client saying the breaker for the lights had tripped, and it was ‘popping’ when reset. Drag myself back to the client’s on a Sunday afternoon, lo and behold, screw straight through my cable. Seeing the boarding in person my blind gran could have done better.

    Very surprised to return a few days later and find a pretty smooth ceiling. A few bits of scrim tape exposed and a few drag marks but overall a 9/10 job. But by crikey did he make a meal of the prep work. “These things happen eh?” He remarks regarding my spoiled weekend repairing his damage.

    Long post but that’s the sort of operator you’re up against on that website…
     
  16. FUNDIMOLD

    FUNDIMOLD Active Member

    I've had mixed results from mybuilder. The problem is that I use them when I have an issue that needs sorting quickly. Unfortunately it bothers me if they can't come straight away and it bothers me more if they can!o_O
     

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