Naïve questions - using 12.7mm 1/2" router bit on laminate kitchen worktop joints

Discussion in 'Carpenters' Talk' started by fizzy2, Nov 22, 2021.

  1. fizzy2

    fizzy2 Guest

    On the contrary - I do not know best. To put this in to context - I did say from the start that I have some naive questions.... I think that mass produced stuff is often machined in the quickest way that they think they can get away with and probably change the blades less frequently as they should. Perhaps I also have a more critical eye than most? I see some work that people are very pleased with, whilst I see the faults.

    Obviously a good sharp blade and a slow enough pass avoids these things (as you do with your router) - I think that we are in violent agreement!

    Ironically - my previous job was mathematically modelling using such tools as matlab, and I did do some work for NASA, predicting the seals of a certain something would fail but wasn't listened to!
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 26, 2021
  2. fizzy2

    fizzy2 Guest

    I'm sorry if I have upset you. To be clear - I read and take in every word with respect and thanks for your advice. If I have seen a real life quality issue, surmise what I think may be causing it and explain my thoughts, it does not imply in any way that I think that I know better than you, or think that you are wrong.
    Thanks for your continued advice and support...
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 26, 2021
  3. Tilt

    Tilt Screwfix Select

    Probably told them about the Heat Shields too........
  4. fizzy2

    fizzy2 Guest

    I can see and feel the horizontal lines in the picture attached (without a telescope), whatever they are caused by. Picture taken of a 'picture rail' whilst shopping in Selco today.

    I've seen similar lines/ripples around the bullnose edging of mdf doors, the inner machine line (that simulates a frame/panel door), and the vertical lines that simulate vertical panelling.

    I don't know what causes each of the ripple lines, but they are definitely visible defects.

  5. fizzy2

    fizzy2 Guest

    Nope - my team were responsible for FMEA modelling of polymers & other non metallic material interactions...
  6. woodbutcherbower

    woodbutcherbower Well-Known Member

    That's the chatter I was telling you about. In this case, it comes from worn cutters on the spindle moulder used to mould the profile, coupled with too high a feed rate. It sands out in seconds.
    fizzy2 likes this.
  7. fizzy2

    fizzy2 Guest

    Thanks. I note that you wrote "too high a feed rate" as part of your explanation. My query was relating to this very point. I was simply suggesting that a 4 bladed cutter would do 4 mini cuts for every 1 big cut that single blade cutter would do (for the same rotational speed and feed rate). I fully accept that a skilled craftsman would 'pass' at a speed suitable for any number blade edges.

    You get away with sanding out the pictured timber before painting, but it's too late for mdf finished kitchen doors.

    Would the similar ripples seen on the detailing of mdf finished kitchen doors be caused by the same machining method and failure mode as your picture rail explanation though? I wondered if this type of machining was done by something more similar to a router and wrongly assumed it could be caused by the blade and excessive feed rate of rapid production. I'm no expert, but would have thought that the max acceptable finish feed rate would be affected by the number of blade edges on the cutter? I accept that you believe not, although I don't understand why you think so?

    I've even seen the ripples showing through the plastic wrap of mdf doors. Plus... some painted mdf doors have rough/fibre brown detailing (on an allegedly finished white product)! I find it surprising that others haven't noticed this. Perhaps I'm so focussed on perfection/faults whilst others only see the overall picture. I must admit that i've noticed angle errors, slopes or slight dimension differences etc, when people have said that they are the exactly same, and I must be imagining it. We then measure it to find it to find that what I claimed was true and apparently no one would notice - (but I did)!

    Anyway, It's as if some of these mdf doors require sanding, sealing & re-sanding before priming & painting, but instead they painted over a poorly machined open fibre / ripple finish!
    I've genuinely seen it with my own critical eyes, although I haven't seen it so much recently, maybe due to the number of solid slab/handleless sales.

    Pease don't take any of the above as a criticism of you skill/knowledge/experience etc, it's just what I think / perceive without better explanation given to me...
  8. woodbutcherbower

    woodbutcherbower Well-Known Member

    Fizzy. Please. Enough now.

    Go out and buy a decent router and a few cutters. Get some timber and start working with it. Stop fixating, stop over-analysing and stop over-thinking everything - and above all, don't lead yourself into ultimate disappointment attempting to attain a level of perfection which is unattainable to someone who's never done this before. You've already spent more time stressing out over miniscule surface flaws than any other human being on the planet. I'm pretty sure you'd probably also spend a few weeks analysing the principles of fluid dynamics and solvent vapour pressures before opening a can of paint.

    You're obviously a very intelligent person with a scientific background, and it's also obvious that you're applying all of that background to this. But woodworking isn't a science. It's a craft. It also uses natural materials which are often full of flaws and defects - warps, cups, bows, knots, twists, splits, and shakes. It's the craftsman's job to deal with all of that whilst still making something beautiful, and if you can't deal with it because it's never going to be perfect enough for you - then maybe woodworking isn't for you. Until you stop doing what you're doing and actually get some blades spinning and some sawdust generated - you're never, ever going to know. Just stop writing stuff on here, and get it done.

    As I said, I wish you good fortune in all your endeavours. I won't be responding to any more of your posts, because quite frankly it's absolutely doing my head in.
    stevie22, Ian Atkins and Jord86 like this.
  9. TSB

    TSB Member

    Hi woodbutcherbower, nothing to do with original thread but on a side issue, which are the trend ts55 blades that you rate? Is it the craft ones?
  10. woodbutcherbower

    woodbutcherbower Well-Known Member

    @TSB It's these ones mate;

    Less than tenner a pop - but brilliant. As time-served @kitfit1 agrees = as good as OEM Festools. I've no idea how they do it for the price - it costs me almost as much as this to get my pile of 48T blades resharpened by my local cutting tool guy. Highly recommended.
    TSB likes this.
  11. Truckcab79

    Truckcab79 Screwfix Select

    Hi Woodbutcher. Any chance you’d be kind enough to find the equivalent for my 210mm Evo saw. You recommended them on another thread recently and for the life of me I tried to find them without luck. Ended up buying a Saxton Blades pro for £20. Seems decent but I’d like to try the Trend ones at that price.

    Many thanks.
  12. woodbutcherbower

    woodbutcherbower Well-Known Member

    @Truckcab79 I'm not familiar with your particular saw (blade diameter, bore, kerf etc.) - but here's a link to the entire product range. Grab a part reference number, ignore the ludicrous list prices, and Google/Ebay/Amazon are your friends. Hope you get fixed up.

    PS example - fantasy price per the link below. Real price as per the link in my my last post.
    Last edited: Nov 30, 2021
  13. Truckcab79

    Truckcab79 Screwfix Select

    Much appreciated.

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