Discussion in 'Carpenters' Talk' started by Kevee, Mar 6, 2019.

  1. Kevee

    Kevee Member

    Hi All,

    I am about to embark on the first fix of my house and was wondering what peoples opinions were on nailers. I can think of a few more uses for a framing nailer like doing the fencing and building the stable doors I need to do but apart from those 3 main things I am wondering are they worth it?

    Does any one have any opionions on if it is worth while or should I stick to my hammer. This is on my own build so I do not have commercial\time constraints like when doing this for a client.


  2. KIAB

    KIAB Super Member

    Lot of money tied up in a cordless nailer,if only three jobs.
    Got a workshop, better of buying a decent compressor, & coil nailer, or other nailers,can use compressor for spraying,& many other jobs.
    Last edited: Mar 6, 2019
  3. Kevee

    Kevee Member

    Thanks KIAB, I do not think I would have much use for a sprayer etc. either. Maybe it is sticking with the trusty hammer :)
  4. KIAB

    KIAB Super Member

    Could hire one for a weekend/week.
  5. Kevee

    Kevee Member

    I did think about that but since this is a personal project I am only getting chance to work on it 1 day per week so would have to either do a few short hires or do as much prep with framing etc. I can so could blitz it with one hire.
  6. Jimmycloutnail

    Jimmycloutnail Screwfix Select

    Buy one second hand and sell it when your done paslodes always hold there money well
    RolandK, Jord86 and WillyEckerslike like this.
  7. Kevee

    Kevee Member

    How about a new Hitachi one which seems to be roughly the same price as a second hand paslodes one?
  8. Jimmycloutnail

    Jimmycloutnail Screwfix Select

    It’s a paslode copy never used one myself but don’t think people who have rate it, but probably ok if your not going to be using for site bashing. If
  9. Mr Rusty

    Mr Rusty Screwfix Select

    If its just your house, use screws and get a decent impact driver. My merchant does reisser boxes - 250-450 depending on size at around £20, and an impact driver is a very useful tool.
    mr moose likes this.
  10. Dam0n

    Dam0n Screwfix Select

    I agree with this . I'd go screws over nails all day long.

    Also, if you haven't considered it a decent impact driver is a such a luxury. Mine gets used more than any other of my cordless tools . I don't know how we used to live without them until very recently.
  11. KIAB

    KIAB Super Member

    Don't know how I manage without my impact driver,like you,it gets more use than many of my other tools.
    Dam0n likes this.
  12. Mr Rusty

    Mr Rusty Screwfix Select

    In our house called the "knocky knock"
  13. wiggy

    wiggy Screwfix Select

    Absolutely NOT worth it. As said above screw.

    I have the paslode im90 and im350 they just sit in their boxes looking orange, big waste of money. I bought them for a lot of roof battening but by the time you 're fill with nails, change batteries, un clog jams and lug it about all over a roof, its easier and more satisfying to hand nail, £600 guns that i cant even get £200.

    2 x paslodes for sale, pm me
  14. Kevee

    Kevee Member

    Thanks for the comments, it does seem that unless I can get a cheap one it is not worth it.

    Another question is as a guide a lot of forums are saying when fixing the sole plate do not have fixings beyond the depth of 50mm (stud) + 25mm OSB in case you miss the joists. Since there are no services underneath that does not sound like it would be that sturdy and is perhaps more cautionary if in an existing property so I may be better off going a bit longer and going into the joists as well.
  15. mr moose

    mr moose Screwfix Select

    Sounds like you can use longer fixings then if you want, but not really necessary because the sole plate will not be going anywhere with 25 mm into OSB. I agree with others re impact driver its the way to go unless you are doing incredibly repetitive jobs i.e Thousands of fixings to put in.
  16. ShabbaPlanks

    ShabbaPlanks Member

    I am not quite sure what work you are doing, but if you are timber framing I would not use screws as has been suggested in a few replies, nails are stonger than screws unless you intend to use purpose made brackets. Nails have a much higher sheer strength than screws and a pair of oval spikes into endgrain can also provide a better grab than screws as they dont cut the wood fibres.
    I dont think a framing nailer will save you much time if you are working on your own, you would save more time by planning to work efficiantly.
  17. Mr Rusty

    Mr Rusty Screwfix Select

    Thanks for this post - thought provoking.

    This is true to some extent. From an engineering perspective, it's not that nails have higher shear strength, but they are more ductile, whereas screws tend to be harder/more brittle. In shear a nail will tend to bend, whereas a screw may snap if continually loaded by expansion/contraction, so there are definitely some applications where nails are better. Not so sure about your ovals in to end grain, because screws tend to have 300-400% the pull-out strength compared to nails.

    However, I agree it's an interesting discussion. As there are screws designed specifically for framing it's not a black and white answer. Couldn't find a UK link, but it seems in US where there are more timber frames, nails v screws is a common conversation. Seems their codes require nails, unless a specific approved screws are used. adds some info.

    I always tend to use screws on my own projects, and probably over-fix, but certainly made me think.
    ShabbaPlanks likes this.
  18. CGN

    CGN Screwfix Select

    I find a second fix nailer (pin gun) more useful to me on a day to day basis. Nice to have both though.
  19. ShabbaPlanks

    ShabbaPlanks Member

    I guess context is king and there will always be edge cases. My understanding of screws into end grain versus nails is based on a geometry argument, it is setup in a way that in reality you would be unlikely to find such a perfect arrangement, but it does help to get the idea across.

    The argument is this, in a piece of timber all the fibres are arranged such that they either run parallel to a face or perpendicular to a face. The end grain of a timber stud will run perpendicular to the cut face as long as the face has been cut square to the long edge.

    So if you had a carton of plastic straws which represent the wood fibres, and ran a sharp thread into the top of the bundled straws, you would find that the majority of the straws the thread has made contact with have been cut multiple times along their length.

    Some of these straws will have been cut right through their diameter while others will have been cut to some degree less, but all of the straws that the screw has contacted will have been damaged in some way. It is contact with the straws that provides a resistance to the thread being pulled out of the carton without applying a torque.

    When an oval nail is inserted into to the same bundle of fibres / straws they tend to move aside or compress as the nail is driven, of course some are damaged but fewer than a screw would damage.

    Most of the fibres surrounding the nail remain intact but compressed. So the fibres act a little like a Chinese finger trap on a nail. Whilst screws are often driven in square to the surface, nails are toe'd such that each nail provides a force acting against the other nail when the timber pieces are separated.

    Whilst a screw might have a greater initial resistive strength / resistance to being pulled out, once the screw has been pulled the height of its thread, say 1.5mm it has now removed or damaged the majority of the material holding it in place. Whilst a nail will provide a resistive force to extraction along the entirety of its length, though that resistance goes down as the surface area in contact with the timber decreases.

    Even a well triangulated timber frame will experience some skew because of expansion in joints, wind buffeting and the fact it has some length. A small skew on a frame can translate to a large force on the stud joints due to the principle of leverage. It might not sound much but if a screw can lose the majority of it hold in timber after being pulled a couple of mm, then wind buffeting of a timber frame structure held together with screws can work loose quite quickly.

    Roof trusses are usually specced for fixing by bracket to the wall plate and brackets are to be fixed with twist nails. I believe the twist in the nail is to increase the energy required to withdraw the nail.
    Again I think this is because of the issue with some expected movement of a structure over time mostly due to leverage.

    All of this really only applies to end grain, and end grain is never really the ideal I described, it is wavy and runs in many directions. A screw running across the grain would be fine and depending on the timber and the screw used, is almost always stronger than a single nail.

    This is just my understanding and like many things in my life I probably understand less than I think or achieved the right answer by the wrong means, so totally up for banter.
    WillyEckerslike likes this.
  20. chippie244

    chippie244 Super Member

    What I have found from when I started my career when nails were king, labour was cheap and screws were expensive and slow is that methods of construction have changed to take on the new realities.

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