Discussion in 'Carpenters' Talk' started by sarah martin, Jul 2, 2014.
I would just wait 6 months till that joint has blown and then re-do the whole thing properly.
just a thought, but if your objection is the look of the end elevation looking unbalanced is there anything you could accept using a matching end board?
I was thinking perhaps that you could place a second or new panel on the existing end adjusted to the overhangs what you would be happy with. Of course, there will be a downside that the cupboard side will show the inside of the panel and it does depend if there is enough overhang from the worktop.
Just a thought to add to the options for you to consider or discuss with the installers.
With all due respect to the others that have replied to you on this problem, let me give you my opinion. This is 100% the responsibility of the "Fitters".
The way the "Fitters" have fitted the peninsular worktop, with too much of an overhang in front of the cabinet doors, is a complete bodge......!!!!!! There should only be 40mm overhang from the front of the cabinet (20mm from the Door front)
It is obvious what has occurred, the Worktop/Breakfast bar was sent you/them too wide and pre-edged with matching laminate (by the looks of the photo's)
What the "Fitters" should have done was tell you as soon as they noticed that it was too big. It would not have been a major job to have cut the worktop down, run a Router along the cut edge to clean it up and then re-edge the top to the correct size and then there would have been no need to cut into the architrave near the door....!!!!!
If I was in your position, I would get back in touch with the "Fitters" and tell them you are not happy with the job and get them to come back and do the job the way it should have been done originally.
It will mean they will have to remove the sink, replace the sink worktop and the breakfast bar worktop.
Don't entertain compromising in any way! THEY HAVE COCKED UP, and it is down to them to sort it out.
I'm thinking you could keep the first unit - the one in the corner - where it is (stepped back 4") but bring the end one out until it's positioned where it 'should' be. At the back, where the chairs are, the panelling would need to stay where it is, and the end panel facing us would need to replaced with a 4" wider one.
That would work. But I think that the bb top should have been an 850mm one, and not come in front of the sink at all, or encroached the door frame. Bad work.
Mr. HandyAndy - Really
It is a bodge. But I would only blame the fitters if they have not followed the plan. Personally I would have questioned it with the client. If the client was not contactable I would have lined up the edge in the kitchen area correctly and cut a 45 deg angle over the patio doors, maybe even straight out and edged. Then if the client was not happy I would trim the width back as required. Personally I prefer to keep the bullnose profile if possible.
For the mitre through the sink. Join together using waterproof adhesive, not silicone or PVA. Leave to dry. Remove bolts. Cut out for sink.
Remember, the worktop is only made of wood chips glued together. Use the right glue and support the join well.
thankyou again for reply - to the left of the washing machine is a return run of units along the other wall.- the B/B only has 1 400mm cupboard under it (at the offending end) next to it is the dishwasher - the full length of the B/B is 69"
I have got 2 "silly" sides - 1 is the large overhang on the kitchen side & 2 is the edge cut into the window frame on the other side.
have just got a torch & had a look under the sink where the work surfaces join - it appears that 3 cut outs have been done (they look a bit like big keyholes) for bolts but there are no bolts there-just cut outs ! so I presume that they are just glued together.
they are aware that I,m not happy with these issues (I have paid) & I think that they will try & resolve it although they are reluctant to say the least-I think that if the B/B can,t be removed (as they have said) I will opt for having the sides cut down - not perfect I know (but neither is it now) but I have no intention of paying out for more "surfaces" & neither have they ! they say that it is perfectly acceptable ! everything else about the fitting is fine & the kitchen (when decorated) will look lovely - just so annoyed that there was no need for this to happen
hope it doesn,t come to that chippie,fingers crossed
I can't see how they can cut the worktop down in situ.
thanks for your reply snezza - what you have said is exactly what I would have asked them to do had they made me aware - unfortunately they didn,t,just carried on & fitted it although on the plan was a 900mm b/b - neither did I check the size of it when I took delivery.
yes it is down to them to correct the situation but the problem is getting them to do it ! I am trying my best to get the best out of them rather than they just leave me to get on with it - unfortunately I have paid & I don,t intend to pay anymore for additional work
Just to be clear. There is no way of removing and cutting the b/bar to fit correctly. The outside edge where you sit can be cut as required and re edged. The inside edge over the units can not be cut into the correct place as the worktop on the sink run has been cut too short.
The only hope would be to cut the inside edge of the b/bar in line with the units leaving a square edge, then splice in a bit of bullnose into the gap that is formed by the sink corner due to the front edge of the b/bar moving right.
If your fitters were the mutts they could reattach the bullnose in the correct place for a good finish.
Frankly there is one easy way. Remove and refit new tops.
Sorry you have had a bad experience of our trade. Unusual size 952. If the plans were not clear as to the position re the units I would suggest you pay for the new top and the fitters cover the labour cost. I would think the fitters will loose more money on that solution than you will.
I still don't get how you would cut the outside edge.
The outside ( seating ) edge can stay where it is. It is the inside edge that overhangs the units too much.
That's not what you said.
I can see the dishwasher in one of your earlier photos - is it easy enough to get to and use? If so, all that needs to happen to sort out one of the silly sides is to move that end 400mm base unit out until it sits where it 'should', so its drawer is the same distance in from the front of the b/bar edge as all the other units. Then fit a wider end panel to cover the revealed 100mm gap.
That leaves the other silly end - the seating end. Ok, it's a shame is encroaches on your door architrave, but some people would accept that whilst others wouldn't. And if you are in the latter group, then that's absolutely fair enough - it is not 'proper' so you don't have to accept it if you don't want to.
The fitters had a responsibility to agree all this with you beforehand - they didn't, so they are liable.
But, if that end base unit moves out until it's flush with the worktop edge, will that be good enough for you? Your call.
A different issue is the worktop join under the sink bowl. Thanks for confirming what we suspected (no bolts!). Most likely they did fit the bolts temporarily to tighten up the corner join until the glue set. Then they removed the bolts (they had to as they'd be in the way) and cut the sink hole.
It is not ideal to have a corner join near a sinktop, tho' it often has to happen. But to have it going under is much, much worse! Not only is it weak, but any water that splashes out your sink (and some water will splash out every single time you use it...) will land on that joint line. At some point it will almost certainly fail...
I think I would consider that actually a bigger problem, unless they have some magic glue that has made a cracking job of fixing and sealing the join.
At the very least, I think I would expect from them a written guarantee of the longevity of that join. I think if you read any current warranty you've been given, there will be a 'get-out' clause on water damage to worktops - something along the lines of the customer has to ensure water isn't left sitting on worktop edges and joins etc. And the bottom line is, if your worktop does swell and split due to water damage, it can only be because you did let water on to it to cause that damage - ergo, you won't be covered. That is fair enough to an extent - customers cannot just let water pour over their 'tops and not expect it to cause damage, but in your case that joint is as vulnerable as it possibly can be. Weak and in the worst possible place (and your fitters know this...).
If you did want to cut it I would use a straight edge and router as close to the wall as possible then move on to a fine handsaw. A 1/4inch router would get very close to the wall. All in all a right faff!
It's a shame it's all been paid for - it is always easier to 'persuade' tradespeeps to do a job properly when you owe them the balance. However, you are still covered - you just need to be more insistent. If it comes to it, you could get someone else to do the work and sue them - and you'd win. But that's a hellish, drawn-out process.
Best for your sanity if you can compromise. But it absolutely should NOT cost YOU a penny more.
Agree with requiring a written guarantee re the mitre through the sink. If they think it is fine they should be able to cover it for at least 3 years.
Personally, I don't see trimming of the existing b/bar as being an option - who the hell wants a sharp flat edge; that's soooo 60's, man.
I think they should also have brought the sink worktop along further too(like to past the tomato sauce bottle!) before mitring it across to near the sink.
What is it? 3 worktops? Do it all again, properly. Definitely. And have fitters next time, not learners.
Mr. HandyAndy - Really
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