Need advise about newly plastered and painted walls

Discussion in 'Painters' Talk' started by leave, Jul 15, 2018.

  1. leave

    leave New Member

    Hi there,

    Got a bit of a problem I'd love some help with. I had the walls in my house replastered, and all was good, except for a single wall. The plasterer was completely upfront about it, but he'd stated that the weather was making the plaster dry too quickly, and he wasn't sure if it was sound or not. He did his best to keep it wet, but struggled, and ultimately said "I think it's fine, but any trouble, let me know and I'll be back".

    Couple of weeks later, I had a painter in, and he began work on the room. The first thing he did after sanding was prime the wall (I hope) with a mist coat. Apparently, though, the mist coat wouldn't take, ad kept peeling off. So, he reskimmed a few areas, sanded, primed, and repeated until it was apparently OK. Anyway, after four days, I realised he was a complete chancer, and had no idea what he was doing, ad sacked him. The last straw was him announcing yesterday that he had painted over the paint with PVA and was going ot let it dry over the weekend and then come back and see if that helped. All the time, he's blaming the plasterer, while I'm trying to remind him that the plasterer was totally upfront about the issue.

    Now I'm in a bit of a situation - He attempted to do two undercoats, and also inexplicably decided to add a coat of my final colour paint, too. The wall is completely streaky, showing tons of variation, and worse yet, if I pick at the paint, it'll literally peel off to bare plaster.

    What's my cheapest fix for this kind of situation - I'm obviously now taking quotes from specialist painters, and consider it a lesson learned, but just wondering how likely this is to be an ongoing saga!

    Thanks so much

    John
     
  2. KIAB

    KIAB Super Member

    Why,why,why do they use PVA, it's just not needed.:mad::mad:
     
  3. leave

    leave New Member

    I know, it's madness. He's blaming the plasterer, going crazy, telling me I should take him to court and see who the judge thinks is to blame.. bloody hell. Mark of a true professional.

    I haven't been rude to the guy once, just told him I wasn't happy with the state of the walls, and he flipped. Insecure, I guess...
     
  4. Allsorts

    Allsorts Super Member

    If he 'flipped', it's probably because he knows he's messed up, and denial is his reaction as opposed to 'fessing up (like the plasterer did).

    Ok, it doesn't matter if your plasterer had difficulties during skimming (and it must be hell in this weather); as long as the plaster has adhered to the wall, that's all that matters. Getting the paint to adhere to the plaster skim is the painter's job, and has nothing to do with what the plasterer may have done.

    There are situations where a fresh skim can be hard to paint on to such as when a plasterer 'polishes' the finish excessively. This leaves almost a shine on the surface, and it's dead smooth and rock-hard. Perhaps this is what happened here as a side-effect of the plasterer trying to cope with the weather; if he kept sprinkling water on the skim as he trowelled away to get a good finish, then an overly-polished surface could, I guess be a result.

    However, a professional painter/decorator should know how to cope with all such surfaces. Yes, the first coat should be a 'mist' type, or perhaps the guy prefers to use dedicated 'new plaster' paint? But he should have ID'd the surface first and made allowances; this could have involved a very light sanding to 'key' the polished surface, or even applying a coat of something like stabilising solution first which would bond on and make it perfect for painting.

    From what you say, the painter got it wrong and he's liable. You cannot proceed with further coats if the ones already there are not adhered properly - that's going to lead to a hellish situation in the future.

    As far as I know - and hopefully Astramax will be along at some point - all that paint is going to have to be removed :( , and the painter will either have to do this or else pay to have it done by someone else.

    Oh, and using PVA on fresh plaster walls is a true sign the guy isn't a professional. Have you ever tried emulsioning over PVA? I think everyone should do this once in their lives for a laff... :(
     
  5. leave

    leave New Member

    Thanks for the reply Allsorts, he did sand the area first, but yeah, the paint is coming off in strips. I've sanded down everything, and I'm wondering if it's worth just paying the plasterer to come back and give the entire wall another skim coat over everything. What do you reckon?

    Unfortunately, the painter has blown a fuse, and he doesn't speak great English, so it's impossible to have a discussion with him without him getting wounded and defensive and refusing to engage in a conversation about the actual work. It's going to be pointless discussing liability, I'll be surprised if he manages to come and collect his tools without punching me!
     
  6. leave

    leave New Member

    The painter is now saying that if the back of the peeling paint is brown, it's the plasterer's fault, if it's white, it's his fault. Does that make sense?
     
  7. Allsorts

    Allsorts Super Member

    Hmm, yes it does - I think.

    If he had painted on to an over-'polished' plaster surface, or had not used a 'mist' coat - ie if the painter had done something wrong in his surface preparation - then the result would likely be that the paint would not adhere properly and would peel off cleanly; as he says, the back of the paint layer would be almost 'white'. This would - as he says - be his (the painter's) fault.

    I think I see what he's saying; if, instead, the paint is coming off because essentially it is nicely adhered to the skim surface but the skim itself is separating in layers thereby leaving a brown coat of plaster on the back of the peeling paint layer, then that is not the painter's fault but a failure of the plaster skim. For example, the plaster may have been 'over-worked' and had begun to fully set as it was still being trowelled flat. (Like concrete and mortar, you need to stop 'working' (moving it around/flattening/shaping) the material once it has got well in to its setting stage or else it is seriously weakened).

    So - my apologies - if the peeling paint layer has an obvious coating of plaster skim stuck on to its back, then it seems very likely that the reason the paint is peeling off is because the plaster skim has failed, and nothing to do with lack of adherence of the paint to the plaster. Ie - it is not the painter's fault but a fault in the skimming.

    Good chance your friendly plasterer is going to have to come back to sort that wall as he offered... He won't be able to skim over that paint layer ('cos it's not stable), and probably not even on to the previous skim if the paint is scrapped off - at least not if it's dusty and crumbling away in thin layers. It might be a full hack-off job, or possibly a stabilising it first with a specific product.

    (And you may need to apologise to your painter. But, using PVA was still silly :) )
     
    Last edited: Jul 15, 2018
  8. leave

    leave New Member

    Hi Allsorts,

    Thanks for replying again, I'll bare that in mind with the plaster colour. I'd say it's mostly brown, with a little bit of white. I can forgive him for that at least. Can't forgive him for doing the rest of the job so terribly, though

    I wish this industry was regulated - hiring people is such a minefield. I wasn't even trying to do it cheaply..

    When he started sanding down, and the entire room was full of dust, and he immediately started painting, I should've sacked him then, I have no idea why I didn't. Arghh
     
  9. DaveF

    DaveF Active Member

    Why was he even sanding anything? I mean what for? I thought they were new walls? I remain baffled but never mind.
    Honestly it sounds to me like the skim needs to be checked inch by inch and possibly removed, and redone. And I would not specifically trust the plasterer. If he didn't know how to deal with the weather he probably wont know how to prepare the surface ready for another skim. I mean I remain a little uncertain what the problem is but it seems that your two guys can't diagnose it and or don't know what to do with it so you need a pro to sort this out.
     
  10. leave

    leave New Member

    I definitely trust the plasterer - he was totally up front about the problem, and never once attempted to hide it. He did the entire house, and this was the only section of wall he had trouble with. He said, if need be, he'd rip the entire plaster down and do it again. I think every skilled tradesman can have an off day, and that was probably his. Like I say, all of his other work in the house was a very high standard.
     
    Allsorts likes this.
  11. Allsorts

    Allsorts Super Member

    If the painter is simply not up to the job, then by all means 'sack' him.

    If he's done some rooms that are ok, then please pay him for these.

    Ok, try peeling another piece of paint off that wall. Any chance of a close -up photo? It really comes down to - where and how has that paint peeled off the wall? Has it come away neatly from the plaster surface, or has some of the actual plaster surface - even a dusty half millimetre - come away from the plaster below it and is attached to the paint layer?
     

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