New garage unit

Discussion in 'Electricians' Talk' started by sutra, Mar 23, 2019.

  1. Risteard

    Risteard Screwfix Select

    No they aren't.
     
  2. Sparkielev

    Sparkielev Screwfix Select

    Can't really answer for another Sparkie but having 2 rcds on same circuit is pointless, which one will trip first ? The one in the house is already protecting the garage I assume so why have another ? And to be fair councils don't give a monkeys as long as they get a certificate, it's not wrong having 2 rcds it just bad design and pointless
     
  3. Coloumb

    Coloumb Screwfix Select

    You are required by 7671 to provide discrimination. Two rcd's of the same value in series does not provide discrimination. Perhaps your dad's bungalow uses a time delayed RCD of a greater value that the downstream one?

    If your dads bungalow IS to rcd's in series of the same value, it's not dangerous or anything per se, it just suggests a level of laziness and laissez-faire on behalf of the spark who installed it, but this really comes as no surprise. It seems very rare these days to actually find a tradesman that is actually interested in doing a good job. I bought a '72 MGB last year and have uncovered a number of badly done jobs done by the previous owners garage, which he paid good money for. Things like using mastic for missing seals around the headlights and thrust washers missing in the suspension. Irritating things.
     
    Last edited: Mar 24, 2019
  4. Risteard

    Risteard Screwfix Select

    Only where necessary for safety. P.S. It's been called selectivity and not discrimination since 2008. Otherwise having a BS EN 60898 circuit breaker in series with another (regardless of device ratings) would be prohibited. So it mightn't be great practice but is not prohibited.

    In fact caravan parks and caravans have a situation whereby two 30mA RCDs in series are essentially mandated by BS7671.

    But you're not actually an Electrician anyway (and never have been, nor shall you ever be) so it's not surprising that you are dishing out incorrect advice.
     
  5. spirits are real 2016

    spirits are real 2016 Screwfix Select

    But you're not actually an Electrician anyway (and never have been, nor shall you ever be) so it's not surprising that you are dishing out incorrect advice.[/QUOTE]

    who is this ment for who isn't a quilifed electrician
     
  6. Risteard

    Risteard Screwfix Select

    Coloumb is a DIYer.
     
  7. peter palmer

    peter palmer Screwfix Select

    2 RCDs in a circuit could be life saving if one of them doesn't work, especially if its a BG one.
     
    Coloumb likes this.
  8. Coloumb

    Coloumb Screwfix Select

    Amusing it bothers you so much.
     
  9. Coloumb

    Coloumb Screwfix Select

    Yea yea whatever. In the context of the op he shouldn't be fitting two rcds in series and essentially it's prohibited by 7671, so don't do it. Same with discrimination or selectivity. So what? That really makes all the difference to the op yea?

    No idea about caravan parks and quite frankly I can't be bothered to go and check as I have a life. ANyway, again, whats it do with the op?

    I have 2381 and 2391, the required quals to be a "spark". And don't give me any of that "no your not" rubbish. Until industry comes up with a recognised definition of who or what a spark is your on a highway to no where. And I don't want to join JIB.

    For someone who makes out they are so perfect, let me remind you the other day you told an op he should be fitting earth straps to plastic sockets otherwise it's bad workmanship. PLASTIC sockets? What is that, some sort of electrical conducting special plastic type of socket? Yea and I noticed you kept that thread on the low down since.

    Take a look in your own back yard.
     
  10. Risteard

    Risteard Screwfix Select

    What the hell are you talking about RE earth straps and plastic sockets? I actually have no idea what you're alluding to.

    And the JIB most certainly does have a recognised definition of an Electrician which you don't come close to.

    And 16th Edition Regulations (which were withdrawn in 2008) and inspection and testing qualifications don't meet anyone's definition of an Electrician. They are add-on certificates and not actually core qualifications which you don't hold.
     
  11. Coloumb

    Coloumb Screwfix Select

    Yea yea what a surprise.

    Good job I'm not joining then.


    Sigh. 2391 - It's still a valid qualification. T and I has stayed the same in the 18th.

    2381 and 2391 are the minimum required qualifications to join any scam. Or do you mean anyone in a scam, like all the sparks on this forum, are not actually sparks?

    I don't really "get" the reason why you feel the need to "out" me as a diy'er. I've never made a secret of it. Still, so long as it gets on your nerves that's the main thing.
     
  12. Risteard

    Risteard Screwfix Select

    16th Edition Regulations qualifications won't be accepted by any scheme. It's absolute nonsense to suggest otherwise.
     
  13. Coloumb

    Coloumb Screwfix Select

    2391 isn't a 16th ed. qual so get on that.
     
  14. Comlec

    Comlec Screwfix Select

    @Coloumb and @Risteard this time you might both be wrong. I am a CPS member and I was accepted with my 2391 issued in 2006 a year when the 16th edition was very much a best seller.
     
  15. Coloumb

    Coloumb Screwfix Select

    If I did the 18th edition exam I would expect to get on with that and 2391 as a minimum.
     
  16. Comlec

    Comlec Screwfix Select

    Oh and as for the caravan stuff and multiple RCDs. That is easy to understand. The final setup of caravan and pitch supply is the responsibility of two separate parties. A caravan or motorhome owner ensures their own safety by installing an RCD. The Park owner installs an RCD on the pitch supply to meet their regulatory obligations.
     
  17. sutra

    sutra Member

    Jesus. Didn't realise I was opening a can of worms here ;-)

    Thanks for all the advice. This is a great forum and thanks to all the guys that give up their time to help people on here. Here's some further pics of the wiring in my garage as requested.
     

    Attached Files:

  18. nigel willson

    nigel willson Screwfix Select

    Cos he was a k-ob
     
  19. Coloumb

    Coloumb Screwfix Select

    It looks like a mish-mash of 30 years worth of bodges. You would be best off ripping the lot out and starting again.
     
  20. peter palmer

    peter palmer Screwfix Select

    You say that but can you have too many RCDs on the same circuit?

    I have just done some inspections on 6 small houses in Bradford, not old by any means, build about 2012 I think, dual RCD boards made by CED. I would say 40% of the RCD's failed the initial test, they just wouldn't trip off, once they were switched off manually and rest they tested fine but it was the lack of testing and them seizing up that was their downfall, one of them I had to replace anyway as it was still showing a fail.

    It isn't just this job I've seen it happen on either, numerous times over the years its happened either on the meter or with the test button because they simply haven't tripped off for years. RCD's are pretty useless unless the testing is kept on top of so 2 RCD's inline may well save your life someday.
     

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