New Windows Won't Close

Discussion in 'Builders' Talk' started by SF73, May 12, 2018.

  1. SF73

    SF73 New Member

    Hi. UPVC windows have gone in on our new build today. Just been for a nosey on site and found something odd. Wondered if anyone could explain it or confirm my suspicions please

    On the window in the snap attached, both left and right opens and closes tight on the handle, no issues.

    The centre unit also opens, hinged from the top. Wasn't expecting this. There's no handle or anything whatsoever to secure it closed - It just lifts open from the bottom.

    A further nose at the same type of window at one of the neighbouring houses - The centre window doesn't open, but pushing it I could see a small gap between the bottom of the rubber seal and the UPVC frame.

    I opened the windows either side of the centre one and could see in the channels that a brass screw has been crudely screwed into the frame and centre units - That's all that's holding the centre unit closed.

    Is there something else that will happen with these windows to properly secure them, or is as it appears to my layman's eye? ..That the centre units aren't supposed to open and they've been manufactured to the wrong spec?

    Thanks in advance.

    Attached Files:

  2. Isitreally

    Isitreally Well-Known Member

    It's one of two things.

    1. It's supposed to open but hasn't had the handle mechanisms fitted, a mistake that could be rectified.

    2, its not meant to open as the screws in next door show, a bodge job at sealing it shut that's not acceptable at all.
  3. joinerjohn1

    joinerjohn1 Screwfix Select

    Get the fitters back to it. ;);)
  4. jonathanc

    jonathanc Active Member

    If new build from a developed, add it to the snagging list pre completion. As above obviously wrong
  5. HarDeBloodyHarHar

    HarDeBloodyHarHar Active Member

    Definitely (1.) as there are hinges.
  6. SF73

    SF73 New Member

    Thanks for your replies - So, a conversation with the window manufacturer this morning reveals that the centre window is what is commonly known as a "Dummy Sash".
    They make them as separate units and insert them on hinges so that regardless of the width of the entire window frame, the glass units in the frame end up the same size. They adjust the size of the dummy sash to suit I guess.

    They put it to me that it's standard to have them secured closed with a couple of screws. I've found other examples online to back this up, however I made the point that with that being the case, shouldn't the screws be in the bottom of the frame before the window is fitted to the house so that they're holding the dummy sash closed at the point at which it opens, rather than some distance up the sides of the frame, meaning the window can be pulled open at the bottom. Apparently not.

    I am to say the least, rather surprised. If we'd had it explained how a "Dummy Sash" would perform prior to ordering, we would have ordered something else.
  7. jonathanc

    jonathanc Active Member

    What a load of rubbish. Windows are made to fit aperture. They are fobbing you off. tell whoever you are paying here to sort it out or you'll not pay.
    KIAB likes this.
  8. KIAB

    KIAB Well-Known Member

  9. Mike83

    Mike83 Well-Known Member

    image.jpg This is windows in my place. Centre window doesn't open as doesn't have handle.
  10. KIAB

    KIAB Well-Known Member

    Your from the land down under...:D

    Photo upside down.
  11. Mike83

    Mike83 Well-Known Member

    I wish.
  12. Mike83

    Mike83 Well-Known Member

    Photo showing correctly on my side.
  13. jonathanc

    jonathanc Active Member

    I so I think they are saying it looks better that way? If you agree then get it screwed together properly. If you don’t agree. Don’t pay until replaced
  14. KIAB

    KIAB Well-Known Member

    Upside down.:eek:

  15. Mike83

    Mike83 Well-Known Member

  16. KIAB

    KIAB Well-Known Member

    My pc here has had it's day, building new one in a few weeks.:)
  17. SF73

    SF73 New Member

    If you open the windows on either side of your dummy sash, are the screws in the channels that could be holding it closed?
    I called a couple of other window companies who both confirmed screws securing the dummy sash closed are normal....which is bloody annoying as it seems a bit wrong really!
  18. Mike83

    Mike83 Well-Known Member

    I can't see any screws but the window is solid.
  19. When you consider that the openers have a 'pulling' and locking mechanism in the middle where the handles are, but also top and bottom so that the opener is pulled firmly closed snugly against the seal all the way around, then it surely ain't good enough that the central unit is held only by a couple of central screws which don't even have this 'pulling' action.

    For that central unit to remain sealed long-term, one of the coves would surely need to be pushing it firmly closed against the seal whilst cove No2 screws through the side, and then they'd also have to add further screws at least near the bottom to prevent the seal from slowly flexing the unit away at t'bottom.

    It does seem really pants, although I've no idea whether it's normal practice or not.
  20. HarDeBloodyHarHar

    HarDeBloodyHarHar Active Member

    It's 100% bull. NOBODY puts friction stays(the hinges) on a dummy window. There is no purpose.

    And not only that, if a dummy window is fitted, the sealed unit is removed, and the dummy is fixed from the inside, the the sealed unit refitted.

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