Newel Post attachment onto first tread and over stringer

Discussion in 'Carpenters' Talk' started by Roys, Jan 13, 2021.

  1. Roys

    Roys Member

    Afternoon gents, 1st post and I am renovating my full house, doing the hall just know. I am a sparky to trade but fairly much retired now, although I always keep myself busy.

    Asked this question on another forum but can’t be any joiners on it as no reply.

    The house was built in 1962, it had a Parana Pine staircase which had a ranch style banister / balustrade with 45x90mm posts half lap jointed onto stringer with just a plank top and middle, you know what I mean.

    So stairs sanded back with old spilt paint and old horrible dark yellow varnish sanded away back to the bare wood and a satin floor varnish applied, I think it looks good even if I say so myself.

    Next stage in the plan is to create a newel post top and bottom with a stainless steel bannister with glass, screwing the glass clamps straight onto the stringer.

    What I have done is join two of the 45x90 posts together by biscuit jointing and glueing then put it through the planer thicknesses to tidy it up. This has created 2 off 87x87mm posts.

    My question is the attachment of these posts, the top post I chopped out a slot and fitted it over the stringer, is it just a case of putting 4 off 5x80mm stainless screws through it to secure.

    The bottom post I need to fit onto the first tread, so do I just repeat the same process as the top post and screw through both legs of the post and stringer?

    Stringer is 45mm. I need to attach to first tread to bring bannister length down to below 4000mm which is as long as I can get the bannister.

    cheers gents for looking.

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  2. Mikey s

    Mikey s New Member

    At the top I would of cut away a section of floor, carried the newel down over the string and bolted to the joist at the top. the bottom one wants to be like a mortise and tonnon with wooden pegs driven through.
    have a look on stair box website they have guides
     
    Roys likes this.
  3. Roys

    Roys Member

    That’s a good idea re dowels, I presume I would put in a couple of screws holding it in the plumb position then drill through say two holes from the inside to out stopping just shy of breakthrough then fit two dowels, I presume dowels are used as there would be less play compared to screws?
    Thank you for the reply.
     
  4. Jord86

    Jord86 Screwfix Select

    Cut the bottom string back so you can house the newel over the first tread to roughly two thirds of the depth of the newel, plumb it both ways then drill and counterbore the newel, you can then either use screws to secure once you've glued the mortice or drill it out three quarters of the way through with a matching drill size to the counterbore (10/12mm) and use glued dowels, again once you've removed the newel, glued the mortice and refitted.
     
    Roys likes this.
  5. Roys

    Roys Member

    Cheers Jord, once I don’t have as much red wine in me I will have a reread your message as it’s not sinking in just yet, and have a measure up to see if that brings it under 4000mm.
    Thanks again gents
     
    Jord86 likes this.
  6. Roys

    Roys Member

    You have create much debate in our household wifey not keen on the stringer getting cut back, as it would not match the other side, and I ain’t cutting back the other stringer at this stage. So going to mock up a couple of options and run it past your good selves and wife to see what it most practical and looks acceptable to wife.
    We have this argument, I like function over form where the little one prefers form over function.
    I will keep you all updated and hopefully get some pointers on making it work.
    Cheers gents
     
  7. Mikey s

    Mikey s New Member

    If you carried the moulding from your skirting up the string and then onto the landing it wouldn’t notice and looks good.
     
  8. Jord86

    Jord86 Screwfix Select


    If you had a newel post on the open side with handrail then they wouldn't match anyway as you've stuck a newel there.
     
    Roys likes this.
  9. Roys

    Roys Member

    Like your thinking, unfortunately due to my wife being a woman logic does not apply.
     
  10. Jord86

    Jord86 Screwfix Select

    If you don't fit the newel central to the string you will make life extremely awkward for yourself in trying to fit the handrail and balustrade, plus you've already centralised the top newel over the string.
     
  11. Roys

    Roys Member

    Hi Jord, yip intending to fit it central on newel post by chopping out a 45mm mortise in middle of it, not sure of neatest way to do it yet, but wife is trying to persuade me to have it sitting on first tread, when I mock up hopefully tomorrow I will post up to see what you think and give me the pros and cons, if you don’t mind.
    Cheers
     
  12. Roys

    Roys Member

    This is a mock up of how I’m thinking of notching out and cutting the bottom of my newel post. I am thinking of two screws 40mm into stringer from under tread inside to out, two screws 70mm on outside leg of newel, through stringer and into inside leg, and two 70mm from inside to outside.
    Apologies again Jord for not going with your original suggestion, but I’m having to compromise.
    So will this work?
    Thanks again.
     

    Attached Files:

  13. Jord86

    Jord86 Screwfix Select

    Don't apologise, it's your house you do what you want, personally I think it will look ridiculous, there may be a reg somewhere that states it's incorrect(though really speaking who cares, it's you using it) it won't be as strong as if the post was housed into the string and tread and you've also got a trip hazard with the remaining part of the string, however it would work for what you want.
     
  14. Roys

    Roys Member

    Cheers Jord, what bit are you thinking about will be the trip hazard?
     
  15. Jord86

    Jord86 Screwfix Select

    Photo 2, the string left on in front of the newel post, in my opinion.
     
  16. The Happy Builder

    The Happy Builder Screwfix Select

    With the newels centred on string, how will you get the handrail past the floor?

    Really you need 38 mm clearance.
     
  17. The Happy Builder

    The Happy Builder Screwfix Select

    I’m thinking you could have a double newel at the top, so the landing balustrade can run into one side of it and the raking handrail into the other.

    That would give you more wood to work with to stiffen it up.
     
  18. Jord86

    Jord86 Screwfix Select


    It will go alongside the floor/trimmer, it's a finger trap but that's what it is, any other feasible solution involves demolition work, wall mounted handrail or scribing false strings into the stairs and narrowing the width, plus you'd always notice the thicker string on one side and joint line being as the finish is stain.
     
  19. Roys

    Roys Member

    Better now than when I bought it.
     

    Attached Files:

  20. Roys

    Roys Member

    I have removed about 20mm of packing and ply that was at finger trap at the floor joist and just faced the floor joist with a bit of 4mm play, fitting a 40mm rail, and going to fit the glass clamps towards the stair side of the stringer, just trying to reduce the finger trap.
    Again thanks again for everyone’s input.
     
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