NHS

  • Thread starter Thread starter Phil the Paver
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Devil's Advocate said:

And the Leavers on here were also warned of Trump

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So ya keep telling us DA, You warned us in the UK about a situation we had absolutely no control over, yet when he became President of the USA, you come back telling us "we done wrong" What exactly did we , here in the UK do wrong? Christ DA don't you dare ever come on here calling anyone for a result they have nothing to do with. Have no control over , and more importantly can't do sweet fa about.

Anyway, back to the topic in hand.... Our hospital wasn't affected at all (apparently) Computers etc were turned off as a precaution, as IT experts just didn't know which systems stood to be affected. From all reports, the virus attacked systems that were not adequately patched. Thank God ours were. I suppose when you really look at it the NHS were not the only victims of this attack, with many reports coming in worldwide. Nissan , FedEx, Renault and even the Russian Interior Ministry reporting at least 1000 of their computers affected.

Johnson is happy to settle for a £20 entrance fee to A&E for starters.

Gove has called for the NHS to be dismantled and be replaced with personal health accounts.

Farage's feelings are very clear: "I think we are going to have to move to an insurance-based system of healthcare."
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Hmm, I'd have to build a time machine and go back and ask my grandparents/ great grandparents, just what did they do before July 1948. Just how did they choose between seeking medical care and either paying the gas/leccy bill, rent, or putting food on the table? (they seemed to manage alright though, or else none of us "working class" would be here to complain about the present government/ Brexit, Pres of the USA etc, etc.)

Anyway DA, if the NHS does get privatised,,, I wonder if I'll get "staff discount" ?
 
CGN said:
That's all very well DA, but what about the humble tube of caulk.
There are cracks, some small, some big, some bigger. We go to the shop, we purchase a tube with the intent of filling these cracks...permanently. Usual brand isn't in stock, a brand we buy because we've always used it. It works, for a while anyway, but the cracks always come back eventually. We know this, but we're content as it does the job at the time and it's the best, cus that's what we know. So this time, we ask advice, which we get and we walk away with the competitors brand. Slight trepidation upon application, seems ok, fills the gap and smooths off ok...bit cheaper too. Anyway the months pass and cracks still covered over...feeling guilty now but pleased that cracks still filled and not showing. The months pass, the weather does its worst, the building expands and contracts, the sun shines, the wind blows, the rain falls. Eventually the cracks come back...knew it!!
Rather disgruntled we go back to the shop and complain. The shopkeeper apologises and now says that actually, they knew that it wasn't as a good as the other brand, but they were under pressure to sell it as the preferred brand was losing its stance in the market(though the product hasn't changed), so thought it best to start selling the competition.
With reassurance, we take the 'tried and tested' original caulk and go back to filling the crack. The shopkeeper gives us a couple of tubes for free as a measure of goodwill. Hmmm, fills the crack ok, smooths off ok, but not quite the same as we remember. Seems similar to the previously used competitors product, but seems to have the preffered properties of the preffered brand we know and trust.

Anyway the months pass, the weather does its worst, the building expands and contracts, the sun shines, the wind blows, the rain falls. Eventually the cracks come back.

This time, and a few decades later, we go back to the shop, disgruntled that the cracks have come back.
The shopkeeper isn't there but his son is. Explaining the situation the son says that those brands were **** and antiquated and this is the brand to use now. Ok we think, best move with the times and use the new brand. He puts a couple tubes on the counter and tots up the price. No probs, happy to pay for the new uber caulk...no more cracks :)
Anyway the months pass, the weather does its worst, the building expands and contracts, the sun shines, the wind blows, the rain falls. Eventually the cracks come back.
This time, and being wheeled to the shop in a wheelchair we go in and go up to the counter. The shopkeeper comes to the counter to greet us. Explaining the situation the guy says that we haven't used the product correctly!
Begrudgingly we ask for another tube, annoyed that we have to pay for a product that keeps failing. The shopkeeper senses that something is amiss and asks what the problem is...
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Caulk it, pal.
 
joinerjohn1 said:
So ya keep telling us DA, You warned us in the UK about a situation we had absolutely no control over, yet when he became President of the USA, you come back telling us "we done wrong" What exactly did we , here in the UK do wrong? Christ DA don't you dare ever come on here calling anyone for a result they have nothing to do with. Have no control over , and more importantly can't do sweet fa about.

Anyway, back to the topic in hand.... Our hospital wasn't affected at all (apparently) Computers etc were turned off as a precaution, as IT experts just didn't know which systems stood to be affected. From all reports, the virus attacked systems that were not adequately patched. Thank God ours were. I suppose when you really look at it the NHS were not the only victims of this attack, with many reports coming in worldwide. Nissan , FedEx, Renault and even the Russian Interior Ministry reporting at least 1000 of their computers affected.


Hmm, I'd have to build a time machine and go back and ask my grandparents/ great grandparents, just what did they do before July 1948. Just how did they choose between seeking medical care and either paying the gas/leccy bill, rent, or putting food on the table? (they seemed to manage alright though, or else none of us "working class" would be here to complain about the present government/ Brexit, Pres of the USA etc, etc.)

Anyway DA, if the NHS does get privatised,,, I wonder if I'll get "staff discount" ?
Click to expand...

JJ, almost certainly had there not been a Leave result here, there would not have been a Trump over there.

Even his own side acknowledges this.

And let's get this straight - you can claim to diss' Trump as much as you want, be he is ideologically hand-in-hand with the group that fed you the fabricated lines that you so wanted to hear about 'anti-establishment' and 'immigration'.

They fed the beast within you.

And you didn't have the critical faculties - or perhaps the desire - to challenge it.

There is no getting away from that simple truism, JJ (et al) - you did this.

Even when some on here pointed out just who was pulling your strings. And what their ideological desires were for the NHS, amongst other things.


Anyhoo, pleased about your PC systems having survived - clearly a bonus in them being more antiquated than usual... :)


But concerned about your last point - are you suggesting that we 'managed' before the NHS was formed, prioritising our weekly bills in case we became ill, so a change to privatisation would be no different?!

I've never seen such a direct and open acceptance that privatisation would 'simply' be a return to the pre-1948 era...

Yeah, we'll "manage all right..."
 
Devil's Advocate said:
JJ, almost certainly had there not been a Leave result here, there would not have been a Trump over there.

Even his own side acknowledges this.
Click to expand...

Even by your standards, that's utter tosh.

You know the reasons for both, a fightback against globalisation pure and simple.
 
Devil's Advocate said:
But concerned about your last point - are you suggesting that we 'managed' before the NHS was formed, prioritising our weekly bills in case we became ill, so a change to privatisation would be no different?!

I've never seen such a direct and open acceptance that privatisation would 'simply' be a return to the pre-1948 era...

Yeah, we'll "manage all right..."
Click to expand...
I'm not saying we should privatise the NHS DA, I'm asking what happened before we had the NHS ? I don't know. My grandparents are not here to tell me what they did when illness struck (but I'm sure they must have done something? )

JJ, almost certainly had there not been a Leave result here, there would not have been a Trump over there.
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Unbelievable , even by your standards DA.(or perhaps not) You now blame us for the way Americans voted.. As Filly says,, "Utter tosh" What planet do you claim to live on?
 
joinerjohn1 said:
I'm not saying we should privatise the NHS DA, I'm asking what happened before we had the NHS ? I don't know. My grandparents are not here to tell me what they did when illness struck (but I'm sure they must have done something? )


Unbelievable , even by your standards DA.(or perhaps not) You now blame us for the way Americans voted.. As Filly says,, "Utter tosh" What planet do you claim to live on?
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Planet reality, JJ.

It would only take you a few seconds to confirm it.

Anyhoo, it is still incredible that someone is treating the potential demise of the NHS with such lack of concern - 'hey, people managed before it was there!'

Jeepers.
 
joinerjohn1 said:
I'm not saying we should privatise the NHS DA, I'm asking what happened before we had the NHS ? I don't know. My grandparents are not here to tell me what they did when illness struck (but I'm sure they must have done something? )


Unbelievable , even by your standards DA.(or perhaps not) You now blame us for the way Americans voted.. As Filly says,, "Utter tosh" What planet do you claim to live on?
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They died.
 
longboat said:
Is that a promise?
I do hope so, I can't wait.
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Post 54 , you said

Where did you pull that little piece of fantasy from?
Can't have been the headlines, cos as we all know and are reminded constantly...
You, don't read the headlines, do ya?

Post 55, I said

You dont listen to, or read about your idols then?

Lots of info available.

Here ia quick link, from a Tory too.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/jun/05/john-major-nhs-risk-brexit-pythons-johnson-and-gove

I doubt you will read it, so I will highlight a section for you.

However, he went on to claim Gove had wanted to privatise the NHS, Johnson wished to charge people for health services and Duncan Smith advocated moving to a social insurance system.

“The NHS is about as safe with them as a pet hamster would be with a hungry python,” Major said on BBC1’s The Andrew Marr Show.


You denied this fact, supporting evidence easily available on the net. Lots of comments by your shepherds easily available to find, by saying in post 57


It's all doom and gloom with you isn't it?
I asked how you came to the conclusion that the Tories want to privatise the, NHS, and you produce a pro-remain piece of propaganda designed to frighten the living daylights out of people before the day of the vote.
Thanks for showing us all yet another 'end of days' prediction that failed to materialise. Tens of millions fell for it tho, so don't beat yourself up about it too much, you weren't alone.
The remainers are proving to be a dab hand at getting things wrong.
Carry on with your proselytising if you must, but I for one won't be swayed by your all too transparent displays of desperation.


So I asked in post 59, a clear specific question (in 3 parts)


So it is a flat denial of what has been said and intended?

Or its fake news?

Or you just don't know ?



Do try and answer the question though


The very next post, 60, you had forgotten all of it, and were unable to answer.

Either you deny what has been said by them (easily available as i have said)

Or its fake news (but its not, is it )

Or you just don't know. That is the most likely position for you.

But that means that you are not aware what your establishment figures are after, and want.

And like a sheep you have just followed their big headlines. Costs and immigration and decided that is enough for you.

Which means you really don't understand what is going on. Which is what we have been saying on various threads for months.


So you realise you are a bit exposed, so in post 62 you try to attack with juvenile petty comments



I would give up using words for which you have shown time and time again scant regard to their meaning. 'Honest', 'truth'.
Nar, they don't sit well with you do they!

Now, what was that pertinent question, you didn't ask?


And on post 67, where you are still trying to dodge



I don't enjoy your pathetic struggling when I've backed you into a corner, Jack.
Pants down again, for you me lad.



Proving it is your pants that are around your ankles.


Post 79 by DA just highlights some of the information you are blind to or unaware of.
 
Jackoftrades said:
Post 54 , you said

Where did you pull that little piece of fantasy from?
Can't have been the headlines, cos as we all know and are reminded constantly...
You, don't read the headlines, do ya?

Post 55, I said

You dont listen to, or read about your idols then?

Lots of info available.

Here ia quick link, from a Tory too.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/jun/05/john-major-nhs-risk-brexit-pythons-johnson-and-gove

I doubt you will read it, so I will highlight a section for you.

However, he went on to claim Gove had wanted to privatise the NHS, Johnson wished to charge people for health services and Duncan Smith advocated moving to a social insurance system.

“The NHS is about as safe with them as a pet hamster would be with a hungry python,” Major said on BBC1’s The Andrew Marr Show.


You denied this fact, supporting evidence easily available on the net. Lots of comments by your shepherds easily available to find, by saying in post 57


It's all doom and gloom with you isn't it?
I asked how you came to the conclusion that the Tories want to privatise the, NHS, and you produce a pro-remain piece of propaganda designed to frighten the living daylights out of people before the day of the vote.
Thanks for showing us all yet another 'end of days' prediction that failed to materialise. Tens of millions fell for it tho, so don't beat yourself up about it too much, you weren't alone.
The remainers are proving to be a dab hand at getting things wrong.
Carry on with your proselytising if you must, but I for one won't be swayed by your all too transparent displays of desperation.


So I asked in post 59, a clear specific question (in 3 parts)


So it is a flat denial of what has been said and intended?

Or its fake news?

Or you just don't know ?



Do try and answer the question though


The very next post, 60, you had forgotten all of it, and were unable to answer.

Either you deny what has been said by them (easily available as i have said)

Or its fake news (but its not, is it )

Or you just don't know. That is the most likely position for you.

But that means that you are not aware what your establishment figures are after, and want.

And like a sheep you have just followed their big headlines. Costs and immigration and decided that is enough for you.

Which means you really don't understand what is going on. Which is what we have been saying on various threads for months.


So you realise you are a bit exposed, so in post 62 you try to attack with juvenile petty comments



I would give up using words for which you have shown time and time again scant regard to their meaning. 'Honest', 'truth'.
Nar, they don't sit well with you do they!

Now, what was that pertinent question, you didn't ask?


And on post 67, where you are still trying to dodge



I don't enjoy your pathetic struggling when I've backed you into a corner, Jack.
Pants down again, for you me lad.



Proving it is your pants that are around your ankles.


Post 79 by DA just highlights some of the information you are blind to or unaware of.
Click to expand...
8/10 for effort. Well done.
3/10 for content. You omitted a few important details. Do try to be more concise.
 
Devil's Advocate said:
had there not been a Leave result here, there would not have been a Trump over there.
Click to expand...
Really? I can't follow the cause and effect relationship here.

I think it could be argued that a growing dissatisfaction within the working class and older electorate led to both effects - but surely it's a stretch to say Brexit caused President Trump's election victory.

Devil's Advocate said:
Even his own side acknowledges this.
Click to expand...

You're using Trump's side as a reputable source?


Devil's Advocate said:
There is no getting away from that simple truism, JJ (et al) - you did this.
Click to expand...
JJ did this?!

I don't admire the outcome, but if JJ decided the US election then it's an impressive achievement.

I wouldn't have thought JJ capable of that.

Is JJ, by any chance, Russian?

Devil's Advocate said:
I've never seen such a direct and open acceptance that privatisation would 'simply' be a return to the pre-1948 era...
Click to expand...
Not advocating it, just pointing out that it is possible to have universal health care (lacking in 1948) and privatized hospitals at the same time.
 
longboat said:
8/10 for effort. Well done.
3/10 for content. You omitted a few important details. Do try to be more concise.
Click to expand...


Kept it concise and accurate, as you know.

Lets try again, see if you can answer?



You said


Where did you pull that little piece of fantasy from?
Can't have been the headlines, cos as we all know and are reminded constantly...
You, don't read the headlines, do ya?


I asked


So it is a flat denial of what has been said and intended?

Or its fake news?

Or you just don't know ?


Any answer, or avoidance ?


You know about it, you dont believe it, or know nothing about it?
 
I agree with the collective indignation at this attack, but before we go running around trying to apportion blame, consider this. The computers affected were running Windows XP, an old, no longer supported operating system that is well known to have gaping holes in security. Amber Rudd said is wasn't old computers and lack of investment that led to this, but yesterday the government accepted that it was only the old computers with the old operating systems that were affected. Another factual innactitude by the ill informed Ms Rudd. We should be employing these hackers to tell us how to avoid being hacked, us 'old uns', even the computer savvy ones, are out of touch with the methods and systems used to hack.
 
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