Nightmare Customer refusing to give tools back

Discussion in 'Builders' Talk' started by Oak Truss, Oct 4, 2019.

  1. Oak Truss

    Oak Truss New Member

    I had a dispute with a customer this week and in essence the wife chose tiles the week before, I went straight from their property and bought the tiles chosen, they were laid, monday night I got a snotty email asking why I had put down a different tile to the one they chose on the floor.

    I wrote back and bluntly asked her to stop messing about, the tiles are what she asked for.

    Next morning I arrived onsite to work and had a discussion about the tiles, it was accepted under some protest they were the tiles chosen.
    Then I had a berating lecture and after about 2 mins of it said 'that's enough I'm off'.
    I went to their workshop where I've been working from and storing my tools and started taking them all out. (Basically securing all my assets because it's not the first time I've been on the receiving end of a delusional lecture and been accused of doing things not agreed).

    In fact I had cause to write to her previously stating that the next time I get abusive vitriol she will be making the workplace an unsustainable environment and I'll leave the site.

    So when this happened and I started removing all my tools they closed the door with me inside and told me I'm not allowed to take my tools away and they wanted me to come out of the workshop and I'm not having my tools back because the job is not finished. Then I had two guys physically blocking me from access to the tools in the room. In fact at one point I couldn't leave the building if I wanted to because he blocked my exit despite asking him to step aside.

    I refused to leave without my tools, one of the guys threatened to hit me and then goaded me for at least two hours, trying to provoke a reaction in front of the homeowners and 3 friends. I didn't fall for the bait but told him if he laid a finger I'd defend myself.

    Eventually they got fedup of the stalemate and I managed to get all my tools out.I told them what they were doing was completely illegal, they said it's not.

    Needless to say I was livid at not just the obstruction but the entrapment and goading.

    Now the question is were any of their actions legal? I can't see how it would be but I need to check as I'll be writing them another letter.

    Could they have witheld my tools if I had left when asked to? Bearing in mind I had normal legal access to my tools and was in the process of taking them out when they came and obstructed me?

    I have agreed I'll go back on Monday and continue working, not that I want to, but I have been advanced monies and it's not as simple of just walking away because there's quite a few unfinished jobs and snagging and if I walk she is bound to come back at me for more money than the work outstanding.

    She has done this to a builder before, got him to do the lions share then pulled the rug from under him leaving herself substancially in pocket.

    I wished I'd known.

    Where would have I stood with my tools if I had complied, and left them behind?
    And where do I stand on the rest of the offensive threats of violence?
    And where do I stand with this customer should I quit the job even though I have the unfinished work?
     
  2. CraigMcK

    CraigMcK Screwfix Select

    Personally I would have called the police to say I was being held against my will and the tools of my trade had been stolen. there is no excuse for this type of abuse and I would still advise you contact the police and let them know what happened if it’s not the first time it won’t be the last.
     
    teabreak, Heat and masterdiy like this.
  3. Mr Rusty

    Mr Rusty Screwfix Select

    Absolutely totally out of order. Threatening behaviour, false imprisonment - take your pick. Question is what to do. Do you have a written contract with termination clauses? prob not. Personally I would take a little bit of legal advice and work out the best way to legally drop them like a hot potato. You are entitled to payment for the work done. If it means paying back some advanced monies then I'd do it, just watch out for breach of contract - hence the legal advice.
     
    teabreak, Heat and KIAB like this.
  4. jonathanc

    jonathanc Guest

    You were detained against your will which was a criminal act: you should have called the police

    You have every right to remove your tools.

    As to finishing the job,well it comes down to cost of finishing and what you’ve been paid. If they have been unreasonable it will be hard for them to claim through courts
     
    teabreak and Heat like this.
  5. Sparkielev

    Sparkielev Screwfix Select

    Not a chance would I go back, either give them some money back or just keep it for the grief they caused
     
    Heat likes this.
  6. sospan

    sospan Screwfix Select

    The people involved in the confrontation acted contrary to several laws in the country. They had no legal basis to detain either yourself or your property. Even now several days after the even I would make a formal complaint to the Police. This will head off any further action by them and secondly it may prevent trying it on again
     
    duders, teabreak, Heat and 2 others like this.
  7. wiggy

    wiggy Screwfix Select

    Without a doubt call the police and you would be a fool to go back regardless.
     
    teabreak and Heat like this.
  8. terrymac

    terrymac Screwfix Select

    I agree with what's been said above , you should contact the police ,make a formal complaint that you were held prisoner against your will .And you should return only to collect your tools ,consult the police to see if they are willing to attend with you as you fear a breach of the peace when you go back. I can't think why you would consider for one second doing any more work for them. If they think you owe them money ,and you do too ,give it to them or let them sue you.
    With regard to breach of contract ,their criminal behaviour is all the get out you need ,its indefensible and they haven't got a leg to stand on.
     
    Heat, longboat and masterdiy like this.
  9. Astramax

    Astramax Super Member

    As all above plus: If you go back you are a fool heading for no doubt another fall.
     
    Heat likes this.
  10. longboat

    longboat Screwfix Select

    You'd be nuts to go back and do anymore work for them regardless of how much they've paid you already. I know for a fact that i certainly wouldn't step foot on their property ever again.
    Explain, politely, that you won't be able to finish the work you started because of the threatening behaviour that you've been subjected to previously and that you are prepared to come to an arrangement for any monies that she may think have been paid in advance for work not yet completed.
    Thats if you think this is fair.
    If that doesn't work, I'd tell her to pursue the matter through the courts.
    I can't imagine that these type of people would go to court 'voluntarily'.
     
    Last edited: Oct 4, 2019
    Heat likes this.
  11. Richard_

    Richard_ Screwfix Select

    That sounds like a nightmare. Don't go back.
     
    Heat likes this.
  12. Heat

    Heat Screwfix Select

    Agree with above posts.
    False imprisonment,
    Threatening behaviour, with actual specific threats of violence to you,
    Mental torture, lasting several hours (and I note with the homeowners looking on),
    Attempts to withhold or steal your property.

    The contract has been broken by the customer by threats of violence etc, so I would give a detailed precise written and verbal statement to police and that will scupper any chance the customer could come back at you about you walking away from the job.
    Give plenty detail about names and descriptions of the culprits and what was voiced by them. It will give the police plenty of questions for them to ask these morons and could cause them to admit some of it.
    Keep all the money in the meantime.
    You might be able to keep a lot of it when things develop
     
  13. Drewton

    Drewton Member

    I wouldn't go back. If you've been advanced money send it them back. Send them an email saying why your not going back and that you have sent the money back.
     
  14. Ad_Stewart

    Ad_Stewart New Member

    Normally I’m the one seeking the advice on here! In this case I’m someone with with experience inside the criminal justice system.

    You could make a formal complaint to the police, but this is likely to turn into a “he said, she said” situation, and she has more witnesses than you do. The police will know they aren’t independent and likely sticking up for her but it won’t matter. It won’t go anywhere and you’d never get them charged. In addition, false imprisonment is a very high level offence and has a high threshold for prosecution.

    If I were you I wouldn’t want to continue the work but your tools are the priority. Contact the police and tell them the tale. Mention the threats and intimidation. Ask them to accompany you to the address to ‘prevent a breach of the peace’ while you collect your tools. The householder won’t like it but she’s unlikely to refuse if the police are there (she might though!)
    You’d have the reputational harm that she’s likely to splash all over Facebook but let’s face it, she’s doing that anyway by this point.
     
  15. Richard_

    Richard_ Screwfix Select

    Please note the OP did manage to leave with his tools...

     
  16. Ad_Stewart

    Ad_Stewart New Member

    Ah, missed that bit!

    For anyone ever in the same position I’d start a audio or video recording on my phone (without them knowing) and slip the phone back in my pocket. It’s very easy for other parties to make allegations or counter allegations and this negates any “he said, she said” situations. Especially when you’re outnumbered.
     
    gadget man, WillyEckerslike and Heat like this.
  17. Oak Truss

    Oak Truss New Member

    Thanks All, yes it was a nightmare, and fortunately I got my tools back, you hear plenty about problem builders but customers can be a right entitled bunch of morons, I had a comment once that 'I'm your employer' so you must do this or that when and where I ask kind of attitude, to which I replied no your not I'm a builder and your my client, it's a mutual agreement whereby we have equal respect for eachother.....needless to say that goes down like a lead balloon and from there onward your looking at the door.

    I went to record but my sd card lasted 10 seconds and said sd card full!
     
  18. Heat

    Heat Screwfix Select

    Record everything from now onwards in your dealing with them, whether face to face contacts, or telephone and save any texts or emails.
    Also have your phone ready to record audio.
    I personally would gently stir them to get their response of threats and then keep the recorded evidence for the police
     
  19. geno500

    geno500 New Member

    My thoughts are just why did you do any work for these people ,and of course you should have called the police,lifes too short to mess with those sort of people.
     
  20. Sparkielev

    Sparkielev Screwfix Select

    I would check the missing persons list, have any trades gone missing recently?
    Did you notice any freshly dug turf on the property?
     
    Heat, gadget man and Astramax like this.

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