Not again

Discussion in 'Just Talk' started by Phil the Paver, Dec 19, 2016.

  1. The hell that Europe and this world will descend in to as a result of the populist and knee-jerk reactions to such events will be Farage's and his followers' legacy.
     
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  2. KIAB

    KIAB Super Member

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  3. Phil the Paver

    Phil the Paver Screwfix Select


    The problem is in your thinking, you are a typical left wing mind.
    The problem wasn't one individual, that one individual was representing thousands, no millions of fellow individuals when they carried out the attack.
    Yes it may well alter the outcome in a German election, but if Merkel does lose she will only have herself to blame, she is hell bent on making what by and large is an impossible task a reality and its not working, the sooner people realise that these so called refugees are nothing more than deeply disturbed moronic people who what to alter where ever they go into to where ever they came from the better.

    Does that make me a bad person for thinking like that, only in yours and the likes eyes, but remember when they drive a lorry through your local town, you'd be partly to blame.
     
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  4. The problem is certainly either my thinking or yours.
     
  5. Dr Bodgit

    Dr Bodgit Super Member

    I don't see DA as typical left wing, in fact I see commonality between DA and PtP...there has been a massive influx of refugees in Europe and especially Germany, mainly from Muslim majority countries. Mass immigration only works if you also have mass assimilation and we have to be honest that some proportion of these immigrants will end up becoming Jihadists. This is the evidence of that.

    We can argue about what that proportion is, but its not zero.
     
    KIAB likes this.
  6. How many 'immigrants' caused London's 7/7?

    Treat our fellow human beings like locusts and don't be surprised at how some will react.
     
  7. Dr Bodgit

    Dr Bodgit Super Member

    The violent Islamist ideology is not particular to immigrants of course, but "importing" large numbers of people from Muslim majority countries will only increase the risk. We need to fight the ideology whilst recognising there is a link between sincerely held religious belief, and behaviour.
     
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  8. Acts of deliberate murder like this are hateful. i refuse to call it terrorism and therefore give it some support in the eyes of some. Its deliberate murder, religious belief based, what an oxymoron. If you deliberately drove into somebody it would be called dangerous driving etc, not terrorism, even if you (wrongly) targeted those you thought responsible. Its cold blooded murder, nothing more, nothing less. Calling it terrorism actually plays into their hands, it makes their actions, justified to themselves!

    Out of respect to those killed and injured I am not going to argue the rights and wrongs of the immigration "problem", but suggest you think about and remember what has caused it, and work out how to stop it as a better response than blaming the masses when only a few people are involved.]

    Any political point scoring out of this is utterly deplorable, and fuels the problem more, not less! think about that ?
     
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  9. Dr Bodgit

    Dr Bodgit Super Member

    The act itself is murder, but if it instils fear or terror into others then its also terrorism. The purpose of the act is not just to kill a few people, but to instil terror into the population at large - terrorism.

    The problem is an ideology that is believed by some and is a form of radical Islam. I am not blaming the masses but when you import over a million people who have a belief in some interpretation of Islam the you must recognise that a proportion of those million people will believe in violet Islamism i.e. Jihad.

    I think the first thing we need to do in order to stop, is to name it. Its Jihad - violent Islamism. Obama refuses to do it, that doesn't help at all.
     
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  10. You are not wrong, but its designed to cause terror, and we allow it to, by calling it terrorism. Calling it deliberate murder, might just affect the thought processes of some of those easily led followers. Its an argument that can be argued both ways, I know.

    But the 1st thing to do, in my opinion, is to understand, and then cure, what causes it? By assuming its violent islam (which it is), but not attacking the reason why its done, will never cure the problem but just minimise the effects.

    An analogy of putting a sticking plaster on a wound.

    I dont want to get into the argument over the reasons on here, as I say, out of respect to those muredered or injured.

    So I am refusing to post any more on here, but may pick up the subject in the new year after a suitable time has passed,

    And, for anybody in doubt, I DO NOT SUPPORT, IN ANY WAY the actions of all those responsible. Wasnt just a driver of a lorry, it was the controlling minds of his "leaders" too
     
  11. Phil the Paver

    Phil the Paver Screwfix Select


    We all know who's responsible, how he/them are not in prison is disrepectful to all that have and those that will die on both sides of the fence because of him/them.
     
  12. joinerjohn1

    joinerjohn1 Screwfix Select

    Let's re-phrase that question DA,,, How many 'Muslims' caused London's 7/7 ? Apparently Europe has been treating Muslims as fellow human beings for years now (But I'm still not surprised at how this disgusting religion reacts)
     
    koolpc likes this.
  13. Europe has certainly been treating those within it's borders with a fair deal of respect, but one could argue that outwith Europe it is not seen like this.

    But I get your point.
     
  14. I am certainly not 'left wing' - that is a term used by Phil as a kind of insult - 'loony left', a bit like calling someone in the USA a 'Liberal'. That's fine - I don't mind.

    But, there is very little commonality betwixt Phil and me on this issue.

    This is how I see it - every single person on this planet is an individual. They might have nationalities and labels of all sorts, but each one is an individual. That is how I see it, but not how Phil sees it. He sees 'us' and 'them'.

    So, how do we get 'us' and 'them' to get along? We need to win hearts and minds. We need to demonstrate our humanity, act on it, and not be cowed by a very small number of individuals who have caused these atrocities in the West. Count them up to see how incredibly few they are - 9/11, 7/7, the attacks in France and Belgium and now Germany.

    They do NOT reflect the thoughts and feelings and intentions of the OVERWHELMING majority of the people who have come in to our countries.

    Look on our own doorstep for a truly horrifying example of terrorism with greater numbers of participants - Northern Ireland. Is that somehow different 'cos both sides are a bit like 'us'?!

    So, how do we react to this recent atrocity - yes, it is MURDER and it is TERRORISM?

    Well, we could do a Phil and Farage - pull up the drawbridges and condemn hundreds of thousands of truly decent fellow human beings to their fate.

    What will that achieve? Well, it'll make Farage gloat and also give Phil what he clearly wants - fewer of 'them' in his Blighty.

    And then what? It'll also deliver a massive propaganda coup to the Islamists both inside and outside our country - they will now have PROOF that the Brits HATE Islam, and you know where that will lead, don't you? If you think (even if it were possible) that expelling all Muslims from our country would lead to safer shores, you are nuts.

    And, we'd set back civilisation by multiple decades.

    So what's the alternative? Continue much as we are - but make those we allow in more welcome (can you imagine what it must feel like to come in to our 'tolerant' country after having faced the most hellish circumstances, only to read the disgusting front pages of the Mail, Sun and Express every day? Can you imagine?!)

    Yes, absolutely, we cannot just 'open the doors' and allow uncontrolled immigration. But if you look at the stats, Blighty actually ain't all that generous as it stands... And, yes, we need to vet each and every one as best we can. And, yes, we need to allow these people freedom just as we have, but at the same time we need to reinforce what British Values are.

    Everyone on here knows my thoughts on religions, and the ridiculous concessions they are given - protection from insult, charitable status, etc etc. That needs to stop. (But what is our Theresa doing? Allowing religious schools to control their intake so as to exclude MORE from their faith... Jesus Christ)

    Yes, of course there will be atrocities - this will happen regardless of what we do. You cannot stop it, it will not stop, until reason has prevailed. Until hearts and minds have been won.

    This is a journey the human race is on - no-one here is suddenly entitled to what they want as individuals if that means denying others. I've said this before - there is nothing special about Phil and Kools and Longs and me. We are all here through sheer bludy good luck - both in this country and at this time. Against infinitesimally small odds, we are here at this glorious time of human development. You - and I - don't deserve it. It was chance.

    What is our role now? To do everything we can to make the world move forward towards true stability and peace. We are but hiccups on this journey, and to hear the likes of Farage bleat about what HE wants for HIS little world fills me with disgust.

    What's more, his desired-for world will very much more likely lead towards true Armageddon - a repeat of history.

    We need to break the loop. We need to LEARN from history. We cannot sort this in our lifetime, but we can take the correct steps in the correct direction.

    The next time you pass a 'grant in the street in your locality, give them a warm smile - one human individual to another human individual.

    And I hope they don't beat you up as being well gay...
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 20, 2016
  15. koolpc

    koolpc Screwfix Select

    Phew! I was getting dizzy reading that DA! :p

    Only religion that gets protection from insult is the Muslim one Buddy Boy. My daughters Catholic school has to allow non Catholics. In fact, it does so without pressure!
     
  16. Bar locks.

    Anyway, 500 years ago your wonderful religion was JUST like Islam is today.

    Exactly the same. Europe was a Catholic Caliphate. And they butchered heretics. In the most mind-numbing manner possible

    (And your gawd looked down and tutted...:rolleyes:)
     
  17. Phil the Paver

    Phil the Paver Screwfix Select


    Well Mrs Merkel your plan didn't work did it.

    The families of the latest 12 will be pleased to here you sympathize with the murdering bar steward plite.
     
  18. koolpc

    koolpc Screwfix Select

    All religions have had their bad days old chap. We are talking about 'now' not what happened 1,000s of years ago when you were a little puppy! :rolleyes::p
     
  19. I cannot begin to express how contemptible I find that post.

    How dare you speak for the families of those who were murdered, when you cannot even learn from recent history where countless millions were butchered.
     
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  20. Joe95

    Joe95 Screwfix Select

    Does every thread end up like this?

    For the sale of those passed away and those injured, could you resist the picking at each other.
     
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