Over zealous use of the descriptive term 'high integrity' in consumer units

Discussion in 'Electricians' Talk' started by unphased, Jul 7, 2018.

  1. unphased

    unphased Screwfix Select

    I wish to draw Screwfix's marketing departments attention to misleading and erroneous descriptions of consumer units in the Screwfix range.

    I cite one example, there are too many to list. The Schneider dual RCD item 2777P is wrongly listed as being high integrity. It does not have a third busbar section where RCBOs can be placed outside of the the RCD protected banks of mcbs on the dual busbar arrangement. I would recommend that you closely examine all of your consumer unit descriptions to identify where the use of the high integrity description has been wrongly used. It appears to me that you just throw in the term willy nilly because you don't understand what it means. For a high integrity consumer unit it MUST have a separate (usually third but can be more) compartment within the unit where RCBOs or mcbs can be used separate from the dual RCD arrangements alongside. This third section is usually next to the main switch where no RCD protection is afforded to allow the use of individual circuit performance either with (RCBO) or without (mcb) RCD protection. It is sometimes necessary to have this option. Your product 2042P, the 2+5+5 CU is a good example of what is a high integrity CU and it is correctly described as such. Please would you sort this out because it makes a mockery of the system. It is misleading because the term has a sort of enhanced marketing feel to it which suggests it is somehow superior to have it. It is not. It just refers to a different type of CU and you are clearly over using the term.

    Thank you for listening.
     
  2. spinlondon

    spinlondon Well-Known Member

    Non RCD circuits can be connected to a bus bar which has RCD circuits connected to it.
     
  3. unphased

    unphased Screwfix Select

    'High integrity' is being over used and wrongly used, spin, that's all. Whats your point?
     
  4. seneca

    seneca Screwfix Select

    Just like the "fire proof" words that get bandied around in conjunction with AMD3 UP!
     
  5. unphased

    unphased Screwfix Select

    Yup. Every CU is 'high integrity' according to Screwfix.
     
  6. Bazza

    Bazza Well-Known Member

    Yes, I often worried about that 'high integrity' tag which (it seems) describes the ability to have MCBs in the CU that are not RCD-protected.
    I would have thought that would make them lower-integrity.

    A bit like cables buried in walls being described as being in safe zones, when the areas outside the cable runs are the safe ones.

    But there I go again, thinking too much.
     
  7. seneca

    seneca Screwfix Select

    Yes it's words again isn't it Bazza, "safe zone" would seem to indicate that it's safe there. I remember a chap once drilling in a particular spot because he'd read that it was a safe zone, it wasn't of course! :D
     
  8. longboat

    longboat Well-Known Member

    I would say that it's not just consumer units that fall foul in the accuracy of description department where SF are concerned.
    Have a look at many of the stated specs for numerous power tools and you'd probably find more satisfaction from benny banassi.
     
    Josh.91 likes this.
  9. Sparkielev

    Sparkielev Well-Known Member

    They should be sued just for selling LAP
     
  10. Lectrician

    Lectrician Screwfix Select

    I always unstood High Integrity to be a term used to describe any consumer unit which has a minimum of two 30mA RCDs. Manufacturers used this phrase when it became apparent that domestic installations were going to need RCD protection for pretty much all circuits.
     
  11. unphased

    unphased Screwfix Select

    Its a term that is specific to dual RCD Consumer Units. If a dual RCD CU has only the standard pair of RCDs, say 5+5 or 6+6, without any facility to add ways outside of those it is NOT high integrity. Dual RCD CUs with one or two spare ways between the main switch and the first of the Dual RCDs are high integrity. 2+5+5, 2+6+6 etc.

    To be honest it is just another of many confusing and unnecessary terms that get introduced in to the electrical trade that tend to invite mis-use on a whim. Screwfix use it as a sales and marketing ploy to make the CU appear 'better' if it says 'high integrity'. It would be best for all concerned if the phrase was dropped completely from any descriptions. A CU is just that, ultimately, irrespective of how the circuits are arranged. The configuration of the ways and how the devices are used is down to the designer of the installation. High integrity goes on the list of daft phrases that grows longer yearly. It joins mechanical protection, extraneous-conductive-part, exposed-conductive-part, safe zone, double insulated. All of these terms are dreamt up by irresponsible idiots who really should know better.
     
  12. unphased

    unphased Screwfix Select

    If dual RCD and split load RCD were removed from sale we would have the best CU for all concerned, the ability to use individual circuit protection on ONE main switch with absolute flexibility. RCBO or mcb arranged however you wanted it. All this nonsense is created by the manufacturers with only one thing on their priority, cost. It is cost alone that dictates, nothing whatsoever to do with safety and circuit design. I am sure that anything with an RCD on it is massively overpriced by the manufacturers anyway. Schneider Acti 9 price their RCBOs at £80 plus. Why? Because they can is the answer.
     
  13. retiredsparks

    retiredsparks Well-Known Member

    Had double rcd boards for last 10 years.
    2 trips...maybe toaster and thunderstorm.(no big deal)
    Used to be cheaper than using individual RCBO per cct.
    Not too much different now i think for some makes.
    Nothing wrong with 2 RCDs for most installations.
    People are getting a bit silly about this stuff now.
    RS
     
  14. unphased

    unphased Screwfix Select

    Anyone from Screwfix care to comment? Or are you happy to just mislead the public with your false statements in order to increase sales?
     
  15. retiredsparks

    retiredsparks Well-Known Member

    What is the BS definition of High Integrity ?
    RS
     
  16. unphased

    unphased Screwfix Select

    Seriously Screwfix I want an answer!
     
  17. unphased

    unphased Screwfix Select

  18. unphased

    unphased Screwfix Select

  19. unphased

    unphased Screwfix Select

  20. unphased

    unphased Screwfix Select

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