Painting over gloss AGAIN (Non yellowing)

Discussion in 'Painters' Talk' started by Shanks Kop, Mar 14, 2021.

  1. Shanks Kop

    Shanks Kop New Member

    Hi all,

    I will start by saying that I am a novice diyer.

    I need to repaint a lot of gloss (oil) woodwork (all currently white). After reading so much, I’m now at a loss as to what’s the best way to proceed. I’ll have a two week window (New baby out the house) and want to get this right first time, all help greatly appreciated

    What’s the best process to paint over the gloss? (I think it should be):

    • Clean (Sugar soap) > Sand (Key 120) > Clean > Adhesive Primer > Sand/Denib> undercoat> Paint (one of Gloss/Satinwood Eggshell)
    • Is this correct?
    • Some paints from my understanding are self undercoating? So I assume I still prime but not undercoat?
    • Meths/Gloss Off This has been mentioned, is this to clean after the first sanding stage?
    • Sand: From my understanding 120 Grit?
    What is the best white Paint? I’m leaning towards satinwood /eggshell

    I’m Ideally looking at white again and looking to avoid any yellowing as areas are very poor with natural light

    The ones I see mentioned the most any preferred recommendations for my needs?
    • Zinsser bullseye 1-2-3 as a primer (water based).
    • Dulux Trade Satinwood
    • Dulux Trade Diamond Eggshell
    • Crown fastflow
    • Johnstones aqua satin
    • Johnstones aqua satin primer
    • Leyland primer/undercoat
    • Bedec Aqua Advanced
    How much paint will I need (roughly) - All calculators seem to factor in walls, which I’ve already done
    • 17 x Doors standard uk size
    • 17 x Door Frames
    • 7.5m Bannister Handrail (top part only)
    • 3m x Skirting
    Thanks all
  2. Dr Decorator

    Dr Decorator Active Member

    You seem to have it covered

    I tend to wash down with the Zinseer degreaser using a scotch brite then rinse of.

    bullsey 123 would be a good primer to use.

    Zinseer PermaWhite ( White Satin ) waterbase would be a good choice, doesn’t require undercoat but I always do to give paint more body.

    I would start with 5ltrs as minimum 2 coats required
    Shanks Kop likes this.
  3. Shanks Kop

    Shanks Kop New Member

    That’s good to hear.

    The Zinsser Perma White is that for the final top coat ?

    What undercoat do you use?
  4. Wayners

    Wayners Screwfix Select

    The important thing is to get the surface clean and sanded so the undercoat sticks.
    Modern waterbased paints with stick fine to old gloss with good preparation.
    I have waterbased gloss paint that will go straight over older oil gloss with good preparation but it's not the best finish sometimes. Needs an undercoat every time unless you tarting a rental and it's not yellow and in good nick. So it depends on the condition and whiteness of the old gloss and if you are time limited then you can skip the undercoat. So undercoat everytime..

    As for cleaning fluids there are so many. Pick one and go with it.

    Try stick with the same brand for undercoat and top coat so you don't get a reaction. It's unlikely to happen but follow the paint brand spec for a tested finish.

    As for paints, again there is so many.. Bedec, fastflow (never used myself) zinsser are all good but all standard stuff at sensible money. You can go up the brand quality but off the shelf the fastflow is a waterbased alkyd so that will work for you but may go yellow a little over many years, but I did read alkyds are better on hand rails so I always use on stairs. Oils on the hands causes waterbased acrylics to soften vs waterbased alkyds.i prefer the alkyds...

    Think the johnstone's is a hybrid? Don't like that as goes a tad cream and dulux was terrible but they have improved so can't comment. Have seen good results with the dulux though..

    If you want it to stay white then acrylic enamel gloss like bedec
    Shanks Kop likes this.
  5. Dr Decorator

    Dr Decorator Active Member

    Yes, for the final coat.

    I use Leyland WB primer undercoat, it has good covering properties
    Shanks Kop likes this.
  6. Wayners

    Wayners Screwfix Select

    Old oil gloss really needs an adhesion undercoat. Leyland primer undercoat isn't one although many do use and no mention application over old gloss in the data sheet. Just says about previous painted surfaces. There are plenty of adhesion primers made for the job so why not use one
  7. Dr Decorator

    Dr Decorator Active Member

    True, I’ve found when using the degreaser and scotch pad, it’s sticks like sxxt to a blanket. (Internal)

    -external would use the bullseye123
  8. Astramax

    Astramax Super Member

    Clean up, sand over, dust off followed by 1 coat of Bullseye 123, 1 coat FastFlow primer undercoat followed by 2 coats of FastFlow gloss or satin or the Johnstone's aqua equivalent a goodun! ;)
    Shanks Kop, phoebe goldup and Wayners like this.
  9. Shanks Kop

    Shanks Kop New Member

    I'm assuming sugar soap falls under the cleaning products?

    Interesting comments on the handrail and the need for an alkyd paint. I'm assuming they do a satinwood/eggshell alkyd that doesn't yellow? Or is it a trade of?
  10. Shanks Kop

    Shanks Kop New Member

    Is the scotch pad not too abrasive or is that just adding by helping by supporting the sanding?
  11. Shanks Kop

    Shanks Kop New Member

    Why do you swap between the two products for internal/external?

    Costs or paint properties?
  12. Shanks Kop

    Shanks Kop New Member

    This seems mighty tempting ☺️ saving me the head duckery that is paint minefield.

    All other complete option offerings welcome
  13. Dr Decorator

    Dr Decorator Active Member

    The scotch pad is less aggressive, I find it abrades the surface more and helps get any stubborn grime of prior to sanding
  14. Shanks Kop

    Shanks Kop New Member

    On a side note do any of these paints go onto painted metal?

    I have very old metal single (non double glazed) window panes that also need a lick of paint. Heat guns not going to work to strip it as the glass is paper thin and prone to crack. So for now painting over.
  15. Dr Decorator

    Dr Decorator Active Member

    As the weather elements are more harsher, added guarantee using the same system.

    permawhite is designed to paint any surface with just 2 coats, I only use primer undercoat to give more body.
  16. Astramax

    Astramax Super Member

    You are over thinking the job in hand...just get on with it. ;)
    I-Man likes this.
  17. Shanks Kop

    Shanks Kop New Member

    You’re probably right ☺️
  18. Shanks Kop

    Shanks Kop New Member

    I’ve just realised that I have hardly used Zinsser BIN and zinsser Cover stain - from earlier in the year I’m guessing both those will work as the initial primer?
  19. Dr Decorator

    Dr Decorator Active Member

    I wouldn’t waste that product.
    Shanks Kop likes this.
  20. Astramax

    Astramax Super Member

    You are far better using Zinsser Bullseye 123 as a high adhesion primer...just get on with it before I slit my throat!
    Shanks Kop likes this.

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