Part P in Bathrooms

Discussion in 'Electricians' Talk' started by cheltonian, Feb 21, 2006.

  1. cheltonian

    cheltonian New Member

    I have been asked, as additional works, to convert a single rose into a row of downlighters.

    Does this come under Part P?

    I am a non-sparkie so would appreciate any help

    Many Thanks
     
  2. Ripped Off

    Ripped Off New Member

    Yep, its part P and theres a raft of BS7671 to follow as well. Bonding, zoning, IP rating if required etc etc.
    If you know what you are doing then apply to the LBC with about £150. or get a spark for best part of a day for the same money and have them installed properly and other work to comply with the regs. Even if its a full day you wont be paying much more
     
  3. Mr Powerlink

    Mr Powerlink New Member

    I would say yes because it will involve wiring ie extending a circuit (minor works cert) will also need to install supplementry bonding. Low voltage work is notifiable especially in a special location
     
  4. masterseal

    masterseal New Member

  5. rutspark

    rutspark New Member

    I would say yes because it will involve wiring ie
    extending a circuit (minor works cert) will also need
    to install supplementry bonding. Low voltage work is
    notifiable
    especially in a special location

    I'm a bit confused here, since when was LOW VOLTAGE work notifiable.
    If a low voltage item is installed in a non special location and does not involve adding a new circuit and is not a part p item why do you have to notify
    please explain
     
  6. Triplock

    Triplock New Member

    Rutspark, remove 'especially' from your paste, the the sentence is clearer.

    Trip
     
  7. Mr Powerlink

    Mr Powerlink New Member

    Sorry been a bit generic with terminology there. ELV lighting is notifiable due to increased cable size requirements due to higher currents at 12v etc(classed as special installation)the question related to ELV lighting in a bathroom.
     
  8. Morris Minor

    Morris Minor New Member

    How dim are some of you on this forum.

    You can not get low voltage ie 12v without going via a transformer, that will be fed at 230v.
    And where will this transformer be?
    Oh, above and /or near the LV fitting.
    Remember no connectors and tape, but use a button junction box.
     
  9. Mr Powerlink

    Mr Powerlink New Member

    Your point being what MM ? its still ELV lighting at the light fitting! transformer could be remote it may feed several fittings depending on loads and convenience IT IS NOTIFIABLE!
     
  10. Triplock

    Triplock New Member

    Say NOTIFIABLE 10 times to yourselves all you doubters, and it might sink in.

    Triplock
     
  11. Mr Powerlink

    Mr Powerlink New Member

    hear hear to that
     
  12. Morris Minor

    Morris Minor New Member

    Fully aware Mr P, of all the rules.
    Just saying no 12v without 230v, first.
    Also recommend one transformer per fitting.
     
  13. cheltonian

    cheltonian New Member

    Thanks guys.

    I will inform the customer tomorrow.

    Chelts
     
  14. NoNuts

    NoNuts New Member

    Extra-low-voltage is NOT notifiable outside of special locations, PROVIDED that it is a CE-marked kit.

    NoNuts
     
  15. ban-all-sheds

    ban-all-sheds New Member

    13 replies of argy-bargy when all that's needed is to actually read the law.

    Ho hum.
     
  16. masterseal

    masterseal New Member

    Make that 14 with your's, come on b-a-s we've tried to help the guy by explaining that it does fall under part p i myself even gave the bloke guidance on where the zone's fall via the link to the niceic web site, here you go cheltonian use this link here you can find all the info on approved document p seeing as b-a-s wasn't kind enough to give it to you. http://www.odpm.gov.uk/embeddedobject.asp?id=1130910
     
  17. Ken.L.Worth

    Ken.L.Worth New Member

    Please no shrapnel, I'm not a spark and don't do it, but a genuine question on this for my understanding.

    As I understand, Part-P permits as not-notifiable even in kitchens and bathrooms, the relacement of existing fittings and replacement of existing cable if required due to deterioration/damage etc.

    So my understanding is that taking out one bathroom rose and putting in a (zone suitable) downlighter fitting is not notifiable. Putting in a series of downlighters would not be considered to be "replacement of an existing fitting" I would guess.

    Why wouldn't removing a 230V rose and connecting a 12V transformer+ELV fitting be considered as "replacement"? I didn't read Part-P as meaning the replacement had to be identical. This would not require any change to cabling, the existing T+E just supplies the transformer/light combination instead of the rose. Am I being peadantic or simplistic?
     
  18. masterseal

    masterseal New Member

    If you read document p table 1 look at my last post the link is there, this clearly states that all work within kitchens and bathrooms is notifiable. The heading say's work that is not in a special location or kitchen and consists of replacing light fitting's etc, a bathroom is defined as a special location
     
  19. Tiff

    Tiff New Member

    Ref IEE Wiring Matters magazine, Spring 2005, Quote "Q:Is the replacement of a light fitting in a bathroom notifiable work? A:No, providing that the light fitting is a like for like replacement.For example if a light fitting was replaced by a number of downlighters this would be classed as alteration work rather than replacement work and would be notifiable." end quote.
    So quite a clear statement from the IEE I think.
     
  20. Ken.L.Worth

    Ken.L.Worth New Member

    thanks.

    I agree with Tiff but not masterseal.

    Table 1 says work that is not notifiable, first section
    "work cosisting of:
    Replacing any electrical fitting......
    Replacing the cable for a single circuit...."

    The second section then qualifies other non-notifiable work not in a kitchen or special location.

    So the first section applies in all locations, as I understand it, including kitchens+bathrooms.

    I suppose there's some leeway as to what would be considered to be "replacing any electrical fitting including socket-outlets, control switches and ceiling roses" if you're replacing a ceiling rose with a different type of light fitting. A time for common sense I would suggest, one light fitting replacing another I'd suggest would be OK, a series of downlighters would be pushing it a bit.

    Thanks for the replies anyway.
     

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