Pat testing

Discussion in 'Electricians' Talk' started by Accaman, Feb 4, 2010.

  1. jackts

    jackts New Member

  2. joinerjohn

    joinerjohn New Member

    Thing is jackts, Accaman did say in the OP that he has the chance to PAT test around 3000 portable appliances at a holiday site. I don't think he'd have made the mistake thinking this was a PIR.


    Just to put a spanner in the works though,,,, if you follow the link on my last post, and scroll down, you will find that it's only double insulated appliances that have the visual inspection. Any appliances that are not double insulated, have to be checked using test equipment to check for earth leakage.
    BTW when PAT testing equipment the very first part of the test is a visual inspection, including taking the cover off the plug (if appropriate, to check the wiring and amperage of the fuse.
     
  3. Accaman

    Accaman New Member

    John, i read the link u posted and still confused!!! Apart from class one equipment,everything else is a visual???

    Hmmm ,so these expensive testers are for convenience then and for those who regularly PAT test i take it?

    I have a load of software with Pat labels etc, but before i look through it, is it just the case of doing the visual/earth tests...recording that the item has passed or failed and applying a sticker to the appliance once passed,or is there more paperwork involved?

    Sorry for being lazy,but its easier to pick your brains..;)
     
  4. wysiwyg19620

    wysiwyg19620 New Member

    joinerjohn, what about the insulation tests and run tests for then class 2 items, after all it is the insulation that protects the user in fault conditions
     
  5. Bazza-spark

    Bazza-spark Screwfix Select

    Please bear with me on this as it is not straightforward.

    The Electricity at Work Regulations 1989 Regulation 2 requires that:
    "As may be necessary to prevent danger, all systems shall be maintained so as to prevent, so far as is reasonably practicable, such danger.".

    The Provision and Use of Work Equipent Regulations (PUWER) 1998 Regulation 6(2)to(4) require:
    "(2) Every employer shall ensure that work equipment exposed to conditions causing deterioration which is liable to result in dangerous situations is inspected -
    (a) at suitable intervals; and
    (b) each time that exceptional circumstances which are liable to jeopardise the safety of the work equipment have occurred,to ensure that health and safety conditions are maintained and that any deterioration can be detected and remedied in good time.
    (3) Every employer shall ensure that the result of an inspection made under this regulation is recorded and kept until the next inspection under this regulation is
    recorded.
    (4) Every employer shall ensure that no work equipment -
    (a) leaves his undertaking; or
    (b) if obtained from the undertaking of another person, is used in his undertaking,unless it is accompanied by physical evidence that the last inspection required to be
    carried out under this regulation has been carried out.


    The Code of Practice for In Service Testing of Electrical Equipment 3rd Edition (ISBN 978-0-86341-833-4) has been written and amended to give guidance on complying with these requirements. Table 7.1 on page 34 gives recommended teting intervals for various types of equipment in different surroundings.

    Like the 17th Edition Wiring Regs (BS 7671) this is not law. These are best practice and/or Approved Codes of Practice. Following this ACOP will give you a defence of due diligence in the case of and accident, however each case must be risk assesed in its own circumstances (as stated in the opening page.

    How do you prove you have checked or tested? - by keeping records. If you can produce a piece of paper or a spreadsheet or whatever showing that you have a set of reults then you have complied with PUWER 6 (3) and (4b)

    Hope that helps.

    Kind regards

    BS
     
  6. Bazza-spark

    Bazza-spark Screwfix Select

    Some dislexic fingers there from me. Hope you can follow it. Sorry I think the wife has mixed up the keyboard again.
     
  7. joinerjohn

    joinerjohn New Member

    wysiwyg19620.. I used to do PAT testing at the last place I worked. I don't know what you mean, " what about the insulation tests for class 2 items"?

    If an item is double insulated and encased in plastic, How would you test insulation?? There's physically nothing to connect the flying earth lead to, so the test is pointless.
    I agree with what your saying, but having read through the link to the HSE website on one of my previous posts, I would say that the HSE is either wrong or perhaps need this document updating. Here's the full link

    http://www.hse.gov.uk/pubns/indg237.pdf

    Read through it then tell me that you think the HSE are correct, I don't agree entirely with what they are saying here, but at the end of the day, they are used as the main reference point for H&S
     
  8. Bazza-spark

    Bazza-spark Screwfix Select

    If an item is double insulated and encased in plastic, How would you test insulation?? There's physically nothing to connect the flying earth lead to, so the test is pointless.

    Hi joinerjohn

    I have known double insulated tools to break down. Mainly woodworking tools such as circular saws, pistol drills etc. The wood fibres build up inside and around the tools and when damp allow the equipment to track to case screws etc. This is probably why screws are now recessed so that they can't be touched by a finger. Test to the screws and any other fixings. If you get a failure then a strip down and good clean will probably cure it.

    Kind regards

    BS
     
  9. joinerjohn

    joinerjohn New Member

    Here's another quote form this document produced by HSE

    "Do I have to keep records ? ’
    The law does not require this. But you may find it useful if you
    have a lot of electrical equipment, and to help you review your
    maintenance procedures. Experience of faults found will show
    whether inspection intervals can be lengthened and whether
    and how often there should be a combined inspection and test."

    I've highlighted what I think is at odds with usual code of practice as I do think that records have to be kept to show you have complied with PUWER 6 (3) and (4b)

    Perhaps a case of the right hand doesn't know what the left hand's doing
     
  10. Bazza-spark

    Bazza-spark Screwfix Select

    Quite right. The HSE are only there to police the situation. When something goes wrong they are the ones to carry out the investigations and prosecutions. Like any job you do you need to cover your backside. Follow the ACOP and you are in a position to hold your own.
     
  11. joinerjohn

    joinerjohn New Member

    Point taken Bazza, When I was testing class 2 equipment , say a drill or planer. I'd always connect the flying earth lead to a metal part, ie chuck or blade respectively, But there are items out there that have a plastic casing with screws, bolts etc covered by plastic inserts so there's nothing to connect the earth lead to. Extension leads (IEC equipment) was always a pain in the arzz to do too. Found many a fault with subbies 110v extension cables. :)
     
  12. mr sillys

    mr sillys New Member

    Here's another quote form most electrical contractors

    leave pat testing to the oldens, * and untrained types

    cheers

    [Edited by: admin]
     
  13. joinerjohn

    joinerjohn New Member

    I reckon though jackts has opened a real can of worms for us. If we follow the HSE guide then we could be accused of not doing our tests fully.
     
  14. Bazza-spark

    Bazza-spark Screwfix Select

    Tell me about it joinerjohn.

    Just got to remember, the regulations ARE law, the Standards and ACOPS are only guidance and best practice. They will help defend you against the Regulations.

    Kind regards

    BS
     
  15. joinerjohn

    joinerjohn New Member

    Cheers Steve, Are you saying I'm gay, old, or untrained??? ;)
     
  16. wysiwyg19620

    wysiwyg19620 New Member

    if you have nothing constructive to say keep yer snout out of it
     
  17. wysiwyg19620

    wysiwyg19620 New Member

    in the insulation test you do not need the flying earth lead. need that in a run test
     
  18. PATAFIT

    PATAFIT New Member

    I've done more PAT than I care to remember. If you doing it properly you must charge a min of £1.50 per item; I would be more tempted at £1.80/1.90. There are the labels - all items are to be recorded and their findings. I once had a caravan and that site wanted £5.50 per item - soon told them. When I do it I type all the results and send to customer - a bit time consuming. You must remember like fixed testing and installation work - if you sign a certificate and something happens you could be in court - PAT is no different.
     
  19. wysiwyg19620

    wysiwyg19620 New Member

    yes i agree with you patafit. I charge £1.50 per test with a minimum charge of how much depending on the distance from my home. I have run this part time business for nearly 2 years now and still not got back my investment. Still i will plod on and hope to get more clients this year.
     
  20. cliffy brown

    cliffy brown New Member

    PAT is the bottom feeder of the sparking world.

    there you go steve, it's a good place to start
     

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