patch, rip down or over board

Discussion in 'Other Trades Talk' started by Bobby_Spray, Jul 18, 2016.

  1. Bobby_Spray

    Bobby_Spray New Member

    I have to repair the lightwell in my house. it consists of a cupola sitting over a lath and plaster internal pyramid. Holes were cut in the lath and plaster to allow cleaning of a glass ceiling (which i removed). the question is what to do with it? I can get the holes patched but there are multiple cracks in the remaining plaster and my worry is that it might not last long even if dug out and patched. The other options are to rip down the plaster that that is there then replace with gyproc (maybe even the thermaline stuff). This would create a mountain of dust and debris. The third option is to simply overboard with 12mm Gyproc. obviously this brings the face of the lightwell out buy you wouldn't notice it as the height of the cornice is about 3.3m so would be above eye level.

  2. KIAB

    KIAB Super Member

    If it's in a poor state, then rip it down & replace, a messy job,safer in the long run.
    Sometimes overboarding can be a pain in rear overboarding plaster lath & in the long term replacing is a better option.
  3. Jitender

    Jitender Screwfix Select

    I strengthened a small section of lath and plaster wall when one side was being re-boarded, providing access to the back.

    Used one coat plaster to bond the snots, so they dont drop out, this is what gives the plaster its strength using a claw like action in between the slats.

    Ripping it all down would be a big job, and there is change some of the original cornice could be damaged in the process.
    simpo likes this.
  4. Mr. Handyandy

    Mr. Handyandy Screwfix Select

    Pre-stained tongue and groove wood cladding.

    Mr. HandyAndy - Really
  5. KIAB

    KIAB Super Member

    Agree a big job, but the end result would be worth it,once you have access platform up to cornice height,or just above it. you should be able to protect the cornice with a little bit of thought.
  6. Jitender

    Jitender Screwfix Select

    Couldn't you install some kind of pulley plat for system.

    or get a telescopic platform fabricated that rests between the openings.

    Would prefer to have arched openings in center position, with plaster detailing to border.

  7. Jitender

    Jitender Screwfix Select

    Something like this, would need a handrail and toe board. Don't think i can find anything.

  8. Jitender

    Jitender Screwfix Select

    Occupational Knots:

    Devs wouldn't mind going up, weeee.:D

  9. KIAB

    KIAB Super Member

    Don't know size of area, could use scaffold tower(s) with staging boards.
  10. Hi Bobby.

    Well, you've had a range of options :).

    I suspect it comes down to just how poor the state of the plaster is. Hairline cracks don't necessarily mean it's about to come crashing down, but it is a sign that it isn't as good as it once was.

    If the existing plaster was in good structural order and all you wanted was a cosmetic tart-up along with a very useful addition of insulation, then 3mm Wallrock - like a thick 'wallpaper' - would have been a possible solution. And might still be? That stuff covers a multitude of sins and provides a smooth surface ready for painting.

    If you have had a good close look at the plaster surface, then I'm guessing you've had a good 'press' and 'tap' at it too? Or a squint along the surface to see if there's any bulges? If there's any sign of looseness, then I fear the plaster is failing and it's only a matter of time...

    I wonder how close the studs are? Probably pretty close since it's lathe - 16"-ish. Overboarding with even 9mm p'board might therefore be an ok option, then - it's not a horizontal ceiling, in fact the walls look closer to vertical than horiz? If you get accurate fixings into the studs - p'board screws are available in many lengths - then it should be very secure. The tricky bit might be in the corners if there aren't studs availble there.

    The ultimate solution is, of course, to bring it all down and start again. In which case you could use insulated sheet like Kingspan K18. Even the thinnest stuff has excellent insulation value. But, a hellish task to begin with. I'd suggest that, whoever does the job, it should involve poly sheet taped over every doorway on that landing, over the staircase top to seal it off completely from the rooms below, and all over the floor of that landing. I wonder if there's the potential to remove all the bits of plaster and dust directly outside via these hatches?

    This hasn't helped, has it?! :) You still have all the same options you started with...

    Since the glass ceiling has been taken down, does that mean you don't need the access hatches any more? I'm guessing that was to provide access to the top of the glass from outside the roof? In which case they be best covered up?

    What a lovely feature your cupola (didn't know it was called that...) is, tho' - very envious.
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 19, 2016
  11. KIAB

    KIAB Super Member

    A cupola:eek:, it's roof lantern he got, the older name for them eludes me.

    A cupola.


    A roof lantern.

    Deleted member 33931 likes this.
  12. You have sooooo burst Bobby's bubble... :oops:

    You heartless beast, you.

    All together now; "Bobby's got a laaan-terrnn. Bobby's got a laaan-te... " (I'm ashamed...)
  13. KIAB

    KIAB Super Member

    No Bar steward today, your mellowing abit...:p
  14. It's "you're", you ******.

    (Ah - that feels better...:p)
    KIAB likes this.
  15. Bobby_Spray

    Bobby_Spray New Member

    Damn. I always thought it was a Cupola- not a rooflight. May as well board it over now.
    Just for clarity the holes you can see are going. They were only there to clean a glass ceiling that I took down.
    The holes themselves are into the attic. I can access the rear of the pyramid from inside the attic, so I can insulate from that side when I am finished. There doesn't seem to be any nibs broken off and the cracks are probably a mix of historical settlement and also due to the holes shown above being cut in the laths(some of the cracks start from the corners of the openings). As I can get to the back of the wall, securing to studs won't be a problem.
    I guess it comes down to how much mess I'm willing to stand. Lost of dust and debris but not on the same scale as would come with pulling a ceiling down as there is no rubble behind it for noise dampening.
    Deleted member 33931 likes this.
  16. Ah, so you have clear access to behind these walls? Cooool. (Tee-hee - "May as board it over now..." :))

    If it looks in decent order, then it'll almost certainly be fine for another half-century-ish.

    In which case I think I'd be inclined to leave it in place. Perhaps a going over with 300-grit paper, a good brush coat of Everbuild 406 or Zinsser Gardz to seal and bond the surface (and it'll soak in to any cracks too, and make them more secure), and then finish in whatever will give you a smooth surface.

    That might be a thickish paint, or it may require lining paper.

    NB: Take proper advice before insulating behind the lathe. By its very nature, that plaster will be porous to moisture (tho' not so much if you Everbuild or Gradz it), so all the warm moist air in the house will be up there, and much of it will permeate the plaster and make its way into the loft space behind. This is normal, and the moisture is then taken away safely by the movement of air in that void - I presume it's ventilated quite well to the outside?

    If you add impermeable insulation to the back of the lathe, there's a real risk of that moisture instead becoming trapped between the lathe and the insulation where it'll no longer have a flow of air to clear it. The result could be very bad - an almost constant dampness behind that plaster...

    I am not a pro, so you really need professional advice on this. There must be lots of sites out there that deal with renovating historical and older properties - seek their advice (unless there folk on her who can help).

    Of course, if insulating that area is a significant consideration for you here, then that will point strongly towards you removing the lathe and replacing it with either a K18-type product or - if that's too thick - foil-backed p'board with a good layer of insulation behind it, in between the studs (the foil not only acts as further reflective insulation, but prevents moisture getting through).

    But be very wary of just adding insulation to the back. Unless you have pro advice that it's ok.
  17. Jitender

    Jitender Screwfix Select

    I'll try take some pictures tomorrow for you Dev of a large lantern.
  18. KIAB

    KIAB Super Member

    Roof lantern, a wonderful feature in a house, such a shame to board them over, they were put in to provide natural light for a stairwell, passage way, corridor.
  19. Jitender

    Jitender Screwfix Select

    May be doing a project on this, sky light.

  20. Astramax

    Astramax Super Member

    Mr Moose posted some pictures of a roof lantern a while ago of one he had restored, and very nice it was too.
    KIAB likes this.

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